Mac OS Ventura bug. Vertex group weight changes after converting to Rigify causing weird results.
Issue #1409
resolved
I have noticed vertex group weight is different after converting to Rigify.
You can see weird deformation around elbows and knees.
Work around is to transfer the original weight to the converted mesh and rename it.
I'm using DAZ Studio 4.21 Pro and Blender 3.4.1.
I also tried with Blender 2.93. But result was the same.
Comments (33)
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repo owner
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reporter
I’ve Reinstalled blender(3.3.3LTS) and the addon then tested again with default settings but it still gives me strange results.
These are the steps I took.
1. Installed the addon to factory setting blender(3.3.3LTS)
2. Exported Genesis 8.1 Character with default settings.
3. Imported the figure with default setting with Easy Import DAZ
4. Converted the rig to Rigify with the default settings.
This is the blend file of the result.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/k6e1qln7rd3akm9/AAAGwOQClBHzc7ytQzk3n2Tha?dl=0
After converting to Rigify, vertex group with the suffix .001 has no weights.
I do remember the addon working correctly before so I tried with combinations of older versions of blender and the addon. But the result is the same. Blender 3.2 gives me different result but it’s still wrong.
By the way I’m using mac ( macOS Ventura). Could this be the reason?
Image with weight paint is result from Blender 3.2. The other one is from 3.3.3
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repo owner
The vertex groups are fine here. But it is unfortunate that the bone names end in .001. Perhaps the way that Blender adds .001 to duplicate names depends on the system.
Do you have the same problem if you convert the rig to MHX? The bend and twist bones have better names there that don’t risk causing confusion.
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repo owner
When investigating this I found that the G9 vertex groups were not split into bend and twist parts. Fixed now, but it only affects G9.
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reporter
I tested with MHX and I got the same problem.
Here is the blend file.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/141yl203rno12fb/Test.blend?dl=0
When converted to MHX, twist vertex groups have no weights.
Thank you for the fix. I’ll give a try with G9 later.
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Just to add that I can’t reproduce the issue here. The 001 vertex groups is where bend a twist are splitted and they are fine here same as Thomas shows above.
Since you say it worked fine before, you may want to check for a clean install. Also be sure that you didn’t install anything in daz studio that “ruined” your G81M figure, you may try with a clean content folder where you only install the G8 package.
- Does your G81M work fine in daz studio ?
- Do you have the same issue with other figures, as G8F or G3F for example ?
https://diffeomorphic.blogspot.com/2022/11/safely-installing-new-version.html
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repo owner
Well, I’m completely at loss here. I see that the twist vertex groups are empty, both for the mhx and rigify characters, but when I generate new mhx and rigify rigs from the original daz rig, the vertex groups are there. I don’t think it is some .001 mystery, since for mhx the bend and twist names are completely different. And it cannot be something with rigify versions, since the same thing happens for mhx.
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reporter
I have installed some morphs but other that, my DAZ studio is normal. My blender has already been clean installed. I even tried on different machine but still the result was the same. I will reinstall DAZ too and try again.
G81M seems fine other than this issue. I have tried with G81F and it gave me the same issue. I have not tried with other figures yet.
Since blender 3.3 and 3.2 gave me different results, maybe it's blender related and it's mac only because you cannot reproduce the issue. I wish I could try it on windows but I currently do not have one.
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You don’t need to reinstall daz studio, just make a clean content folder. It is not unusual that some assets may damage the standard content. You said it worked fine before, so if you can’t remember what happened then a clean install should do.
Also of course check for error messages when you import the figure.
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reporter
Today I have tested reinstalling DAZ Studio just in case and try importing to Blender with everything default.
Result was the same. The issue is still there.I think it’s Blender causing the problem.
Blender I tested with is Blender 2.93 with clean install. Running on macOS Ventura 13.0.1.
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reporter
G9 seems to work fine.
Except bend and twist bone weights are not split as you have mentioned before. -
I just want to comment and say that I think this is a Mac issue. I’m a Mac user and was getting this from a few weeks ago. I think around the time of the Ventura update. I thought I had some how messed up my JCM files and this was throwing it off.
Either way I never resolved it on my Mac and have been setting my characters up in Blender on my Windows machine then transferring the file to my Mac.
Hope this helps!
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reporter
I agree.
It used to work before and nothing have been changed except for macOS version since that time.
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Uh ok then it is the Mac OS version that trigged the issue, this wasn’t clear in your description above. So when you said “it worked before“ you meant “it worked before I updated to Mac OS Ventura“.
Can’t you roll back the Mac OS version ? This should resolve the issue.
note. Just did a quick search on google and it seems Ventura is quite unstable with many applications. So rolling back may be good at this time. Or wait for fixes by Apple. I know nothing of Mac OS so this is just the impression I get at a first look.
https://www.gottabemobile.com/macos-ventura-problems-5-things-you-need-to-know/
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reporter
Sorry about that. I wasn’t quite sure what caused the issue until CookItOff mentioned it.
I cannot rollback the OS so I’ll wait till Apple releases the update.Thank you.
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- changed title to Mac OS Ventura bug. Vertex group weight changes after converting to Rigify causing weird results.
better title for reference
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I had to grab something from a Daz Mac file today, I want to add that I don’t think this has anything to do with Ventura. I remember @Thomas Larsson Thomas had mentioned that he was having to change some of the list functions for Mac users because of capitalization errors (?) Could this be something similar? Why I ask is that it only effect Vertex groups with duplicate names needing the .001 suffix. As Saito mentions above.
This seems to be that any vertex group that has the same name but ending in “.001” has a missing weight. All the other weights are fine minus the missing .001 groups. This doesn't apply for the Spine groups though, only arms and legs for some reason.
Tested with 3.5
Thanks for still looking at this.
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Also did a Test on Gen9 and I’m getting the same issues.
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repo owner
It is possible that how Blender adds the .001 is OS dependent. I don’t have Mac, but I will try to rename the rigify bones to something that doesn’t ends with .001. If that works in Windows it may work on Mac.
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repo owner
In the last commit the rigify bend and twist bones and vertex groups are renamed to something that doesn’t depend on .001. Hope this works on Mac.
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note. tip. On windows I noticed that when we import a new daz asset, if there are equal names then it’s the names already in the scene which get renamed to .001, while the new names are unchanged. That is, blender doesn’t rename the new asset we import, but it renames the assets already in the scene.
Don’t know if this matters or if it is the same on Mac.
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repo owner
In some versions of Blender the new asset got the .001 and the name of the old one was unchanged. There are places where the plugin sets the name twice in a row to make sure that the new asset has the proper name.
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@Thomas Larsson Thomas, I tried with the new Diff version and that didn’t work. Thanks for checking, sorry you had to add the extra code. I guess we can go back to the original naming scheme as to not have any compatibility issues with previous versions or rigs.
Just wanted to highlight things I’ve tried to help narrow it down:
Diff 1.6 - Same Issue
Blender 2.94 ARM - Same Issue
Blender 2.94 X86 - Same Issue
Blender 3.5 X86 - Same Issue
I don’t have the time to wipe my comp and go back to the previous Mac OS version as I don’t have a backup from that time. I guess for now I’ll live with having to download the characters on my windows machine and then transferring them to my Mac.
This very well maybe a Ventura bug. It’s just weird that something in the OS is effecting a small subset of Blender, right?
Thanks again for all you are doing!!!
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repo owner
Just one last try. What happens if you enable Reuse Bend And Twist Bones when converting to MHX? This option doesn’t exist for Rigify, but it could easily be added.
By default the original bend and twist groups are merged into a single vertex group, which is then split into two groups later. The reason for this odd behaviour is that the code was originally developed for G1 and G2, which use Triax weights instead of bend and twist bones.
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@Thomas Larsson That worked! If like you said, this could be added to Rigify that would be awesome.
On the changes you made earlier to rename the duplicate groups, will this be reverted? My only concern is that if left the new naming scheme will effect importing actions and such from previous rig versions.
Thanks again,
Tim
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@Thomas Then if I understand correctly, this also means that G1 G2 will not work on Mac ?
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repo owner
Tim, there is no risk that there are keys for the bend and twist bones. These bones have copy transforms constraints so they cannot be posed directly, so such keys have no effect.
I will look into adding this stuff tomorrow or over the weekend. There might be problems with the shins though, since they are not divided in the genesis rig.
Alessandro, it depends on where the problem appears, when the original vertex groups are merged or when they are separated again. If it happens during the merging stage things will be ok since G1 and G2 have just one group per limb. G9 has two bones with vertex groups, ending with twist1 and twist2. The control bone is not a deform bone.
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Thank you for the explanation. I don’t have a Mac myself just asked for the Mac guys to be aware.
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repo owner
Rigify now shares two options with MHX: Reuse Bend And Twist Bones and Split Shin. If the first is enabled and the second is disabled (the default), the plugin just renames the existing vertex groups instead of creating new groups with modified weights, so with that setting things may work out on Mac.
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@Thomas Larsson Tested, and it works! Thanks for getting to this so fast.
Thanks again,
Tim
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Last little bit on this change. I’m getting a traceback prompt now when merging toes.
The merge does work but throws up the warning after.
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repo owner
Sorry, I knew that I was changing code there so I should have checked. Fixed in last commit.
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- changed status to resolved
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The vertex groups look fine here.