Small suggestion to show fin value in UI

[engetudouiti]

Thomas thanks to take many time to include fin and row value in morph system. Then only thing, (though I do not think it must need, but so now we already have fin property (final value) and user controll property (row value) slider, I felt if you can add it in UI.

I suppose you can add labell which show fin prop value, just right-side of each prop slider. (row)

The only reason is so user can see real value of each props as same as daz parameter. value(fin) Of course all fin value will be driven, so it only need to show the value. just right -side of each row slider (in morph section UI) with same UI raw.

It not matter the real driver are added in the custom property section. (I only say to show the fin value with row value)

The merit is, if you show the fin prop value, in same raw of the slider, user can set row value, to get the fin value which user hope to set as final value. eg now user hope to set Tongue in-out as 1.00.. but the Tongue in-out is driven by some morphs, if we can see fin value, user can adjust slider as same as daz. (daz slider already show fin value as UI visible parameter. )

Tongue in-out slider (0.5) / (1.0) << label which show float value of the Tongue in -out (fin) = 1.0

It is really small thing, but maybe some user hope to see fin value. as same as daz. And it may only need after you confirm almost current morph system work as you expected, then if you plan to customize UI more user-friendly. so Priority s trival only.

[Thomas Larsson]

I don’t know. The advanced user can find the fin values in the object custom properties, and the basic user should not be bothered with irrelevant info.

The tongue in-out morph is effectively disabled. It scales the tongue bones, but scale seems to be inherited differently in DS and Blender, so scale morphs are ignored for now.

[Alessandro Padovani]

Thomas, as for the bone scale, I don’t know if this may help but I remember you got similar issues with #217.

[engetudouiti]

OK I do not against decision , though the reason why I may not push it , current clean UI may change and make dirty without tweak layout setting.

But I think the fin value is actual value which represent how each props currently used., so as my opinion it is not irrelevant as same reason daz show the final value as slider value. ( hide row value from main UI, but show in parameter setting)

Then the tongue morph is just pick one morph which I could find in UI slider. (so do not means, I pick the morph with some meaning)

As real case, if we control “Eyes closed” (it drive R and L 0.5, in daz studio, even though user not touch R and L Eye close slider, user see. each L and R change value as 0.5. (but raw value keep as 0), so I just thought show same final value as daz, with row sllider value might useful

(so user easy get row and final value of the prop in same place.. and if they are not same, they know , the prop is driven by other morph now.. Basically it may not bother me. ( I think actually get final value is more important, than get row value,. though we can only change row value. I know it)

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[Xin]

I don’t think those “final” values are important for the users. In Blender, you use the sliders to pose the character, and you decide based on how the pose/shape key look as you do it. This is not a exact procedure. Neither in daz nor blender. The values also have little meaning in daz too.

From the point of view of an user, the numeric final value doesn’t matter. The look is what matters. You care about offsets and relative changes, and how the offsets you add affect the bones/shape keys. This is a visual procedure. If you still care about absolute values, you just can do what Thomas said and inspect the properties. I see no reason to clutter the UI with them. They mean nothing for most users.

Porting absolute slider values from daz to Blender is not the intention (and also not worth doing). The way I see it, the main point of the addon is to give you the power of Blender while retaining whatever power daz gives you: to move several bones and dial shape keys with a slider, which has already been achieved. Absolute slider values don’t matter for that, and are not being ported. You can already port poses and shape keys, which are more flexible too, especially in Blender. That’s the important part.

[engetudouiti]

Xin why I request it, it is not for advanced user. but basic user. who hope to see value, how each morph currently used without inspect long custom props but in add on UI. User do not know which morph will be driven by other prop at all. = user can not check how each morph currently used. without check the custom prop section.

The more add on import many morphs which drive other prop, get final value becom more important.

you may often use “currently used morphs” option in daz, when you set many morphs. do not you? do you think it is useful ? I think it is very useful. because it tell me which morph are currently used.

if we only see row value, we can not check it at all without we inspect cutom prop section. Then usually labell is different, so only advanced user can check it. I suppose.

if add on show final value , with row slider ,and row value user can easy gent currently used value of each morph. that is reason why I request and it is useful for basic user.

[engetudouiti]

Then show final value means, it tell user, how you apply the morph, shape key, or pose controller for current figure in blender. if it is 1.00 or min max value, you know it is full strength of the prop. then you may plan to adjust it. if the prop is driven, you may plan to adjust the controller which drive the shape key.

if props do not show final value, we do not know the property is used or not at all.

[engetudouiti]

OK I know when Thomas say “do not know” , you do not like it. so I close this issue.

(if other user request same thing or ask why we do not see final value when they use new morph system, consider again please. )

[Thomas Larsson]

On second thought, this was easy to implement. Maybe it shouldn't be included in the final version, but it should be valuable for debugging for the time being. Also for debugging, there is an option to make sliders for hidden properties when you load morphs.

[engetudouiti]

Hmm thanks, actually I had often tried to check the fin value, when I adjust faicial pose which already mix many controller. . I could not check which face unit now driven from UI,

As for me, fin and raw is one pair for user. then how it represent in UI was matter when I request , to divide props. (I simply had thought, if add on divide raw and fin, we may better to show 2 props value in UI as one set. but supposed Thomas may not think it so . Anyway with use current version, then if user hope to only show raw slider value, (if it make user more difficult to know how it work) remove it as you like for final version as you said.

[Thomas Larsson]

The extra slider has already revealed a bug. If we load CheeksBalloonSuckinL, CheeksBalloonL, and CheeksSuckinL, (and show hidden morphs), the two latter could become negative. Fixed by setting min and max value.

[engetudouiti]

I may only need to set min and max for fin value of each prop. Then I suppose if we can not set min and max for raw slider. Could you set and work min and max for raw slider?

eg in daz studio, we set min and max (-1 , 1) , for Cheek Eye flex. , R flex, L flex. these are all fin values.

then if we set Cheek Eye Flex as -0.5, and set R flex as 1.0 (max value of R flex). R flex (raw) need to set value as 1.5 , then actually daz set raw value so.

Then if I set min and max for the R, L flex(row) slider in Blender, (-1 to 1 ) fin value can not move the range, from -1.0 to 1.0 , when they are driven by Cheek Eye Flex.

(Then as I said, to know how R Flex added , row value do not offer reasonable value, when fin value is driven by many other props)

I suppose actually the old versions already show this issue.(we may not confirm it clear, untill many morph effect hard) because we have set min and max for slider prop in UI (usually we may set so) Though I do not remember how old morph limit worked or not any more.

[engetudouiti]

Yes actually recent version still show same issue, Of course we may not use morphs like I did to controll L and R, but we can not manage it, if other expression driven those value. after all the fin value range limit by raw value limit. (so it lost the range, -1 to ) it is not good I think.

I suppose It is not caused by new system, I suppose,, daz impoter had worked so about limit .

I understand, to change slider value(raw), set limit for the raw value, work better. Then which way is better, I do not know.

But “not set limit for Raw slider” option seems welcom for me. or I can not use real range of morph effect for each prop (when it is driven) .

(on the other hand, fin value always need limit, as you improved with new commit. it effect how mix jcm work)

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[Thomas Larsson]

The final slider is now optional. You control by the option Show Final Morphs.

[engetudouiti]

Yes Thomas I know it. The limit value is new issue which I found. (eg above case, each R and L final value need to move -1 to 1, range. then you may set limit for fin value. it need.

but you keep to set min and max for raw slider prop,. so the morph fin value can not use the range. which user need to use. (and how fin value range change, is different for each case. (which morphs will drive the prop(fin) .

There seems some way (use soft limit can offer, user directly change the row value out of limit range), but without you offer option “limit only for fin props”, the final value can not move the range which we need.

About above case, actually we need to input 1.5 for law slider value, to get fin value = 1.0. at current we can not , untill user manually change custom-prop setting. I think I do not have option, whch only change law min and max , but keep to use daz limit for fin value only.

[engetudouiti]

eg,, you use eye close-open for both eye by one controlelr. as -1 then now plan to open full for r-eye only. (fin value = 1.0)

I suppose current add on stop to change fin when r-eye as newtral.