1. Thomas Larsson Avatar Thomas Larsson
  2. Diffeomorphic
  3. import_daz
  4. Issues

Add jiggles for hair, breast ..

Issue #506 closed
bouich jules created an issue

Its real a super useful feature, for us animators.

fto add jiggles for hair ( pony hair for exemple ) , breast etc.. except addon like wigglearmature and spring bones there is no way to do it for our Daz Characters.

‌

Comments (44)

  1. Alessandro Padovani

    As you said yourself there are already addons doing this. So it’s not clear what you’re proposing or asking for. That is, what the daz importer could possibly do to improve things over what already exists and why ?

  3. Thomas Larsson repo owner

    The plugin now generates a vertex group for the influence weights, which may be useful for setting up a simulation in Blender, by other means. The pin group also depends on the influence weights, but it is mixed with the dynamics strength for the materials and is only useful for pinning.

  4. Alessandro Padovani

    Thomas, I believe what Bouich is asking for has nothing to do with dForce. That is, dForce is not a softbody, it’s only a cloth simulator. Then I see that in some assets dForce is used as a sort of “softbody” by really stretching its features. In some cases also together with zero or inverted gravity but these are all weird tricks that daz people use because they have no other way with dForce.

    As I noted there are already plugins for jiggles in blender. Or as you noted there are other simulation types.

    Then in blender it is really easy to copy and invert a vertex group if the user wants to, so I don’t think it is necessary to import both pin and influence. That is, pin alone is enough for cloth then the user can invert it if he wants to.

    1. vertex groups menu > copy vertex group
    2. weight paint mode > weight > invert

    ‌

  5. bouich jules reporter

    Thank you so much Thomas for looking into this suggestion it’s really something we animators really need.

    Alessandro in fact there is also a lot of plugin that can do others Diffeo features, but that doesn’t mean that diffeo doesn’t have them included. In this case jiggles are something really important for us animators and the addons that i suggest like spring bones, and jiggles armatures etc.. if you test them they are absolutely not worth for our daz characters. This is why i suggested this feature.

    ‌

    Anyway thank you Thomas really appreciate your hard work and making life easier for us animators! from that mhx rigs to those facial amazing features.

    ‌

  6. Alessandro Padovani

    Bouich, the daz importer is an importer. We added phisics for dforce because there is dforce in daz studio. There is no “jiggle” in daz studio so there’s nothing to import about it. Then this doesn’t mean that tools for jiggles may not be useful and that’s why I asked you to be more specific on your request.

    You state that the already existing jiggle addons for blender don’t work with daz figures. Then why ? May you do some examples ?

  7. bouich jules reporter

    Thank you Alessandro for your fast reply, in fact there is a lot of scripts that can offer jiggles for daz studio so that feature exist in Daz.

    I am sorry will all due respect but it’s really obvious you don’t do animation:) , everyone who do animation knows that those plugins are really bad, i work in a studio and we don’t use those plugin they are bad so we use softbody simulation for jiggles as Thomas said.

    ‌

  8. Alessandro Padovani

    Bouich, having you guessing what I do or don’t isn’t of any interest. And you didn’t reply my question that’s useful to help you. What does not work with the blender addons for jiggles ?

    edit. Then is importing the influence useful to you ? Because you can’t invert the pin map yourself in blender with just two steps ? I don’t think so.

  9. bouich jules reporter

    Well i have absolutely no idea how they work because i don’t do python coding, but what i know it’s unfortunately they don’t offer a great soft body simulation.

    ‌

    Anyway thank you very much that was just a proposal!

  10. bouich jules reporter

    there is plenty of them btw, spring bones, wiggles armatures, jiggles armature, and the last Yure Driver  that i just purchased.

    ‌

    They are some script on daz who offer better jiggles that’s weird!

    ‌

    Anyway thanks

  11. Alessandro Padovani

    Then it’s the quality of the soft body simulation that you’re not satisfied with. I agree on that. The existing tools are not physically correct, including the actual blender soft body simulation that doesn’t preserve volumes.

    But if this is the issue it is unlikely that Thomas can write a physically correct soft body system integrated in blender. At the very minimum it is not doable in python for performance reasons.

    edit. Below there’s an interesting link if it may help you. What this guy does is really good in my opinion. It is a little outdated but the principles are the same. The html guide is in english. Plus the download files work fine with blender 2.9. There was also an interesting discussion in the daz forum but I can’t find it right now.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChqHLIEdFuUCEVl8TACnFfQ

    https://ux.getuploader.com/nando

  16. bouich jules reporter

    wow i didnt know that there was an official Dforce for breast!!, hope it will work for a genesis 8.1 ! , we should download this official Dforce for breast from daz store and apply it to our character before export using diffeo correct?

  17. Alessandro Padovani

    Yes that’s the idea, but dForce is not ideal for soft bodies because it’s a cloth simulator. On the other side the blender soft body itself is derived from a cloth simulator and that’s why it doesn’t preserve volumes. So may be there’s not much difference between using soft body and cloth.

    edit. The example by Murakoshi linked above is using multiple soft body layers to preserve volumes. But this is a “complex“ technique and for the old blender 2.7 simulation. I’m hoping that 2.9 may allow for something simple to get the same.

    We’ll have to experiment to see if there’s some nice solution. But the pectoral vertex groups in the daz figures can be used as basis to play around. Below an example where I merged the G8F left and right pectorals with the vertex mix modifier. I mean we don’t necessarily need the HS breast.

    ‌

  18. Thomas Larsson repo owner

    I think that the plugin now imports what can be easily imported and can be a useful starting point for setting up the simulation in Blender. Going beyond that is outside the scope of the daz importer. So if nobody objects, I will close this issue again.

  20. jeroen b

    Interesting subject!

    I am working on a dancing girl animation, using lattices for soft body effects. The lattices are parented to the respective bones and have a soft body modifier. The various meshes (incl. the clothes) have lattice modifiers.

    Results are very nice & realistic, no issue’s with volume preservation and baking lattice's is very fast.

    ‌

  21. bouich jules reporter

    Looks amazing, do you mind sharing your blender file? just to have a look deep into it 🙂

  22. Alessandro Padovani

    Jeroen that’s interesting indeed. I’m playing with soft body and cloth directly on the mesh but it seems I can’t get anything good this way. Because neither of them preserve volumes. Will try with lattices. Do you have a video to show the final result ?

  23. jeroen b

    I cannot possibly share the blend-file, DAZ studio would not appreciate. Besides it is well over 2GB in size. When this project is finished I will post a video (can take a while though).

    ‌

  25. bouich jules reporter

    @Alessandro Padovani I followed https://hpcl.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/431721/blender-soft-body-physics-for-daz-characters

    What Mendoman sayed, btw haha you already in this topic of last year!!

    So i imported the Genesis 8 with Dforce pin with the plugin, followed what Mendoman sayed about the pressure, and i am having a pretty dope results! it keep the volume not at like 100% but like 95% which is great and almost unnoticable.

    this settings;

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/uploads/FileUpload/e4/1b0350726dbd9b66a4d93c15bb43c2.jpg

  26. bouich jules reporter

    Frankly speaking know with Diffeo and Cloth Simulation i am having better results than with jiggle plugins!

  27. Alessandro Padovani

    Thank you Bouich for finding the daz forum thread. I wasn’t able to get that back with google and was too lazy to scan the whole forum by hand. Yep cloth with pressure is probably the best way. My tests with the blender soft body are not good.

    Thank you Jeroen for the video I get the same results as you here. That is, very little bouncing with lattices and I find it hard to control the lattices for more large bouncings. But the idea is good and I’ll keep trying.

  29. Alessandro Padovani

    Bouich if you can I’d like to see an example of what you got with the cloth pressure. Did you try an animation as Jeroen did, or just collisions ? I’m doing tests and I need some reference to understand what people is expecting.

  32. Alessandro Padovani

    Thank you Bouich for the video. Yes I get similar results with cloth with pressure, that personally I don’t like too much. Will experiment with mixed techniques, but for now to me the spring bones seem the best solution, even if we don’t get “touchable” collision effects.

    https://github.com/artellblender/springbones

  33. bouich jules reporter

    Sure don’t hesitate to update this topic if you find a better solution, looking forward for that 😉

  35. Alessandro Padovani

    Yes Jeroen lattices work fine I’m just not satisfied with the results because what I’m looking for is both “bouncing” and “collision” effects. But lattices are a good alternative to spring bones, though spring bones are much easier to control in my opinion.

    Actually I’m playing with the mesh deform and surface deform modifiers that’s kind of lattices but with some more precision. Also found a good tutorial that I’m following.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eggOO9CIyp4

    Sorry for the late reply it’s easy to skip closed discussions.

  36. jeroen b

    I agree with you, for more complex interactions lattices are no good, and thanks for the tutorial link, going to have a real good look at it over the weekend.

    ‌

  39. Alessandro Padovani

    Thank you Bouich for sharing what you find. As for the smutbase tutorial by Toasty I don’t like too much the pressure trick, since it doesn’t seem to use the pressure as intended and may be unreliable this way. As for me I got decent results with the tutorial by Aneesh that I pointed above. Both the tutorials use a binded proxy mesh but I find the way by Aneesh more reliable.

  41. Alessandro Padovani

    The first example is clear and it shows how to make jitters without the plugin, that works fine unless we need collision effects. In the second example it is not clear to me how the collision works. I mean the dynamics comes from vertices binded to bones that in turn deform the mesh, but the collision seems to directly interact with the mesh. Or the video is too fast and I can’t get it right.

    Thank you Xin for the links !

  42. bouich jules reporter

    Xin that’s also the main reason why i use jiggle bones addon wth a mix of imported daz breast morph for game engine it works perfectly, with the unofficial plugin of Xavier to transfer to Unreal engine. i can transfer all my jiggles to unreal engine 4 with the FK rigs MHX and all the shapekey is pretty amazing!

  43. Xin

    Alessandro, you can find the .blend in the video description. Almost every one of his videos has .blends, including the ones linked above.

    Also, this older video might be good too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7y7rlURIO0 .

    He often links to his page: https://www.maxzhang.net/resources . Under “characters” you can find example .blends too. “Physical armature” for example. Under “others” you can find “Real-time Soft body simulation”.

    What I really like about it is the emphasis on real-time. Even with the shader examples for Eevee.

  44. Alessandro Padovani

    I’ll give a better look at the video and the sample files. Tank you Xin this is very useful !

  45. Log in to comment
Assignee
–
Type
proposal
Priority
major
Status
closed
Votes
0
Watchers
4
Jira Software: the preferred issue tracker for Bitbucket. Join the team!