Question about Custom JCMs when I have mixed Character Body shapes
Issue #536
resolved
When I mix 2 or 3 Charakter body shapes like 50% Darius + 35% Michael + 50% Quinton for example
How do I handle the Custom JCMs after importing to Blender? Is it needed to reduce the effect of the JCMs e.g. by 50% for Darius? I think a solution could be I reduce the parameters by 50% like in this example from -0.716 to -0.358 and do this in every darius JCM shape key?
Or is there a other solution when importing? At least there was no setting option so that a custom JCM, for example, only effects 50% after importing
Comments (29)
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Thomas
if you plan to manage those mix type jcms, I think you can add multipler which user can slide for each grouped JCMs it not means show hidden jcm slider (though I actually use it), but I think to make things clear, you may better separate import custom morphs and import character jcms.
which character jcms they will import depend user . though it is advance, there may be user who know how jcm work clear. so those user may hope to import each character jcms with ratio which they mix character in daz studio.
To make it work,
when user import character jcms. set character name. (same as custom morph group)
then add on add new Jcm group and generate the character name slider for each character jcms. when import character jcms
so there will be 3 or 4 character jcm slider, (when user import bounch of jcms with character name)
(it controll all same character jcms which user import with the character name)
after that user adjust it with their memorized value or check the duf scene. . (so even though when import they did not remember well they can correct it by adjuster)
as default slider may auto set as 0. (so all character jcm no effect), then user adjust it by slider. you may need to exclude those jcm multipler from reset morphs, or zero morphs function,
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This is what I call the daz studio hell.
And why it takes ages to load a figure in daz studio when you get a large library of figures and morphs. We definitely do not want this to be replicated in blender. Just don’t mix figures. Use the standard morph packages instead that’s the easy and correct way to do new figures. Or be happy to bake your mix in the dbz and approximate with the standard jcms.
Again this is a matter of workflow. In my opinion it doesn’t make sense to replicate daz studio or the genesis platform in blender. Also because in general it is not possible with some features. But mostly because we don’t want to work “the daz studio way” in blender. We want to import daz figures then work “the blender way”. Thus some approximations may be expected and needed.
It is the same with the “final” slider values that make little sense in blender.
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repo owner
You can load custom jcms with the Import Custom Morphs tool, and then combine them with Mix Shapekeys tool at the bottom of the Morphs section, cf. https://diffeomorphic.blogspot.com/p/morphs-section-version-15.html. Or at least I think you can. As Alessandro says, this will be a mess and I have never done so myself. The standard jcms work well enough for me unless we are dealing with monsters.
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OK OK. I understand why Thomas not hope it . (You have said so when I asked about it before then I do not expect and not request you make it for this add on)
Actually I afraid if I import 2 or 3 l character jcms, which used for current character, and set driver as daz do for currently used character., I do not know my PC installed blender can still pose without problem.
At same time, technically, I do not think mix shape keys can manage 2 or 3 character jcms (though it is useful as described)
Because V7 jcms or Aiko JCMs may not simply overwrite or add G7 default JCMS which use same driver expression, we can not mix different jcms which use different driver expression. the mixing shape key workflow work when 2 JCM have same driver expression. (some character jcms may offered so, but some not, then daz can show quarity difference for default free figure and sell character)
Then vendor often sell, character preset which mix 2 or 3 character + only add detail. then when they buy those character and import the character, (for them he just use one character preset as single character, he need to import those jcms if get same jcms effect). We may often see character sold which need to import Aiko , Victoria or sometimes 2 default character. then they only work well when those character JCM applied correctly with each pose. (or not show good quarity deform with sepecific pose as JCM).
The more long daz user, the more they often mix character I believe, (so internally daz load all character jCM which currently used, and adjust with character weight , when bend legs or forearms, but user do not need to know those things when they make their character, or when they use character preset.
I avoid to import and make huge shape keys mesh data as private reason, but if I have plenty good ssd , and blender can manage those huge data, I may hope to import character jcms which I currently used for the character in daz studio if I can. Though I seldom import those character jcms, but I usually mix character. (never think to use Aiko 0.4 only or Vicotria full ) this importer is to import daz character, so there should be same question, to get same deform with pose I suppose.
I think Thomas may better to add it in FAQ. about character JCMs and your view and why you may not add it for this add on then user who may hope to get same jcm effect with mixing character, may not ask it so often.
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Then I have question related this issue, so import custom morph multipler option can do what I described? (import characterA jcms with set multipler)
that means, it auto multiple with each import jcm strength. = we can set weight as same as daz for jcms, when we input the character mixing weight value as multipler value?
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yes it seems work. (if you hope to import character jcms for mixing character, it depend on each user)
I only mix 2 character, kalen and mei rin. then after import default morphs for G3, import each character JCMs (though you may need to choose pJcm or eJcm which actually you need to use) by import custom morphs, with set the strength value,as same weight value which used for current character.
Though I do not think if there are complex character jcm, (which use another switcher morph like G8 morphs) but add on set the shape key strength so. then it may offer more fit jcm (at least vendor of the character) for each pose with current mixing character.After import those jcms with set strength,, check there are same name jcm and when it use same driver expression, you may only mix those shape keys and gather as new one. without change ratio.(keep 1 and 1) by mix shape keys tool , then it can gather 2 shape key data as new one. (decrease shape keys)
About peformance issue, I do not see so huge difference. because, after all when we pose default figure, it already import many jcms, and it will be driven by pose bone. but I easy suppose my saved data may become really huge. (but it is same how many morphs , textures, or props you will import ) then if you manually merge shape keys, (of course delete original jcms, and only remain new merged one), it can reduce this issue.
add on already import deep hieralchy morphs, so if they work,, character jcms (and which already multipled weight as shape key) may not cause big difference I suppose.
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reporter
Yes this multiplyer or strength value would be a solution so far I undertstand this whole thing. My only problem is, I don’t have such an option in the import tool. Neither in “import Custom Morphs” nor in “Import Custom JCMs”
Don’t I have the newst version maybe? I tried to check update, but there are no new updates. -
With recent beta version, I do not find import Custom JCMs (for me) etc (though I test with G3 and select rig (do not know if it cause difference)
I feel any non default morphs (include base jcms) may use same button (function) to import morphs.
can you show your currently used version in set up tab?
at current it should be 1.6.0.0338 (I now up-date again)
I hope Thomas confrim actually it is designed so or not. (the multiple meaning)
eg I set shape key value 1. then I import one morph with different strength, (strength1 and strength 0.5)
I suppose strength 0.5 version show 0.5 multipled deform with same shape key value. (so generated shape key data is already multipled with 0.5)
or if add on generate same shape key, but auto change shape key strength (final) value ., it may need to consider again how use it. (though I do not think so)
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reporter
This is my Version 1.5.1. When I click on “Check for update” I get “update directly to master” and then if I click again I get from Blender “nothing to Update”
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repo owner
In version 1.6.0, Import Custom Morph imports both jcms and other morphs. The morph file knows itself whether it is a jcm (driven by a bone transformation) or a regular morph (driven by a slider), so there is no reason to have separate tools. Especially since the same directory can contain both jcms and regular morphs, and it would be a nuisance for the user to guess the type of each file.
As for the auto updater, I’m thinking about removing it altogether. Its not my code, I don’t understand it, and I seem to have configured it incorrectly. Besides, last time I checked it crashes Blender 2.93, so it is disabled from than version anyway.
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reporter
Is this the newst vesrion 1.6.0?
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Yes (from build number)
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repo owner
The last commit has sliders to adjust the overall strength of all morph of a given type. Not sure if it will work in every situation though, but it does in those that I tested.
Jochen, I would recommend that you use git to update to the latest versoin (tortoisegit on windows). It takes a little time to set it up, but once it works it is much easier and faster than downloading entire builds, since only the difference since the last commits needs ot be downloaded. Plus git is widely used everywhere, so it is not only useful for this addon.
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Thomas I think new option work well for the purpose. (as same as stength option)
At same time, Can you generate the overall new multiple sliders as option when user import each custom/or standard morph groups(or types)? (toggle switch generate or not)
I suppose if there will be case, the multipler effect un-expected way when it used for all category .
About easy import I do not think you need to offer such toggle option, (so you may decide which morph need global multipler or not),
at current, Face unit have it, expression have it, PHM seems do not have it, vismes do not have it. (I do not know it is your intention or not)
(because other expression morphs adjust face unit too. then expression have multipler too. and some morph is used as bool type switcher. (so it is expected to input 0 or 1 only) and as you already commit, if user import morphs which already have multiple adjuster (though I do not still test it for non hand mande morphs) add on can import and generate driver do same thing.
though I do not know if it may cause issue or not , but to use safety, (about this case it is best to generate character jcm who not like to set strength and hope to confrim it after generate jcm) so if he know what he will do, may generate the new mutipler only for his purpose (if he do not know clear it may work as he need, he can avoid it)
(At same time, I actually like add on offer option to generate global adjuster for each group, so now I need not manually make it in daz studio when I hope it to add. but if add on auto generate it, I think it may better to offered as option (user choose it or not)
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reporter
@Thomas Larsson Thank you for your Tips. I’ve installed 1.6.0 manually to Blender this time. I must study first this tortoisegit tool. I have not realy an idea what it is. But I have a question to the new version 1.6.0. Do I also need to update the “to_daz_studio” folder scripts in DAZ also?
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About your case, (jump some version), I strongly recommend , yes you up-date “to_daz_studio” (manually locate them as same as before). without you confirm there have been no up-date about these. (basically you keep up-date it too)
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At current there is no way, to set JCM then if you need it keep open this please.
(multiple slider for each user defiend group temporally added , but now it change as full morph aduster for deferent purpose, so with recent version, there is no way to set different scale for each character jcms which you mix in daz studio and import as morphs)
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repo owner
As I wrote in the different issue, the sliders are per character (rig object properties), so you can adjust jcms for each character independently. Perhaps one may want different adjustment for face and body (expressions and jcms) though. To have more fine-tuned control than that does not really make sense to me.
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So that means, per character (which you make in daz studio),
then how you can import each character jcm with different weight eg Aiko 0.3 and Vic 0.7 = my character which I made in daz if you remove, slider which work for each character jcm? There is no way, without user manually use mix shape keys, one by one compare with name etc.. but as already descirbed, there was “strength” ( though I think new group slider was more useful untill you sudeenly change the purpose of the slider.
If you add the global slider for the root node scale purpose, it is actually useful. but why I insist this, you add new slider in this topic. as improvement. then now the new slider not work for the OP purpose, because it can not set different weight for 2 groups (Aiko jcms and pbmes) and (Vic jcms and pbms) when user import.
At same time it remove the tool which can use for the purpose. (I do not think, you need to remove the tool which worked before and actually there is user who may use it for their purpose)
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repo owner
Oh, now I see what you mean. My idea was that the standard jcms with adjustment that would look good enough. But that does not allow you to perfectly mix jcms for two different characters.
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Thomas I know you means. I felt you offer new good option, to easy manage those jcms (if user import them) at same time adjust each group sliders was good appendix for me.
I do not think it is un-useful, because daz often add those new multipler for new generation figures.
eg G3 do not have on and off option for jcm, but after user asked way to easy remove current all jcms effect for their creative purpose (make new morph etc with keep current pose), in daz forum, The answer was make the ERC morph by them self. . then do not know how many user hoped and request, but after all G8 offer it.
then now G8 have some props which can on and off only about some morphs (as group)
Some vendor offer multiple slider which only work for their morphs so user can easy adjust the effect without change other morphs. (like adjuster for leg shape morphs)
You offer good grouping way for import custom morphs (at least user can set custom group for each purpose). so there was no demerit, when add on offer the slider (multipler) which can adjust each gorups morph separately.
Then if you think default jcm work well without import character jcm and set weight correctly I do not think it is enough for any character which morphed in daz studio.
if user only import full character, it may work. but even though V7 0.5 only used character, it may not show ideal shape for ejcm and pjcm. untill you import those with set up correctly.
the issue is more clear when the character need MCM for some pose. (like eye closed adjust morph) G3 not use many shape keys for face controll as default but many character may need it to clean close eyes.
if G8 need many shape keys which used for facial, I can easy imagine, there should be case you need to import those character pJCM or mcm which only offered for the character. then if they use the character morph with weight value, ,it need to set the weight correctly in blender too.
I think it was pity, you remove the option (which user can decide it to use or not) actually it was useful.
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repo owner
OK, the old way is back. Now you can adjust each category separately again.
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Thanks I believe the category slider can cover most of real case to import character morphs of mixed character + can set each category morphs effect as I need.
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repo owner
- changed status to resolved
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reporter
I have a question to this thread again. Why I can’t find this Strength value not anymore in Version 1.6.0.0450. Is there an newer Version where I get back this value for importing Charakter JCMs
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reporter
- changed status to open
I have a question to this thread again. Why I can’t find this Strength value not anymore in Version 1.6.0.0450. Is there an newer Version where I get back this value for importing Charakter JCMs?
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repo owner
It was removed because you can change the strength dynamically with adjusters. To create adjusters, set the global setting Adjust to Morph Type.
If your character is 30% Aiko and 70% Victoria, import the standard jcms and the pjcms for Aiko and Victoria, and then set the Aiko and Victoria adjusters to 0.3 and 0.7, respectively.
However, I have never really used adjusters myself, so I’m not sure how bug-free the code is.
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reporter
Ok Thank you. Thats an improvement. So I can dynamicly mix characters. great
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reporter
- changed status to resolved
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if you import those character JCM morphs, by import custom morphs,
you may find option multipler which you can set , how shape keys work which currently selected and will be imported.
the purpose is user adjust import morph strength with the value. then your thinking way is correct.
eg If I mix micheal 0.5 Darius 0.2, my custom 0.1 then if all character have individual jcms,(and mcms) actually daz multiple JCM strength with each character strength which currently used. ( though it may better you check JCM ERC in daz studio. if you really make it work perfect)
After import default G8 JCMs ,you may need to import 3 character jcms with set different multipler value.
I do not know recent version “import custom morphs” is desigend to import custom jcms (or character jcms) too or not, but it seems work for me.
(at same time I avoid to import many character jcms, so basically only import default jcms, and adjust it in blender as I need., if make it work perfect same as daz,, you may need to generate really many jcms I suppose)