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+# Tell versions [3.59,3.63) of GNU make to not export all variables.
+# Otherwise a system limit (for SysV at least) may be exceeded.
+.NOEXPORT:
+The OverChat Committee
+======================
+Agenda
+Saturday 23rd February 2002, 16:00 GMT (root zone) (11:00 Central Time, 10:00 Eastern time, 09:00 Montain Time, 08:00 Pacific time).
+
+On the above date, those authorised to be in the committee will be invited to
+irc.digiserv.net's #overchat.
+Don't worry about passwords, turn up in #chat and if you are authorised we will get
+you into #overchat.  The meeting will be chaired by DDRP.
+
+The Agenda
+==========
+1) Chairman's Opening Remarks
+2) Matters arising
+3) OC32's progress
+4) Oberchatten's progress
+5) The rights of users to promote and demote other users, specific rulesets based on a draft by Jeff
+6) Server performance, one thread Vs many threads based on the event based model
+7) State of security of the OverChat system
+8) INI files and why they are not good for performance
+9) Speaker: Supreme Commander of OverChat
+10) Speaker: Representitive of TowardEX (our host), the Superior Mystic Controller
+11) Any other business
+12) Date of the next meeting
+13) Meeting close
+Feb 23 16:00:50 <DDRP>	1) Chairman's Opening Remarks
+Feb 23 16:01:09 <DDRP>	Good morrow programmers.  Thankyou for attending, I thought attendance might be low.  
+Feb 23 16:01:18 <DDRP>	I have received apologies from
+Feb 23 16:01:26 <DDRP>	1) Haesu - server operator
+Feb 23 16:01:36 <DDRP>	2) Smat - Spiritual advisor
+
+Feb 23 16:01:43 <DDRP>	2) Matters arising
+Feb 23 16:01:49 <DDRP>	Are there any matters arising?
+Feb 23 16:02:09 <Jeff>	I would like to present a TOS Change
+Feb 23 16:02:10 <Jeff>	later
+Feb 23 16:02:33 <DDRP>	I think now is a good time
+Feb 23 16:02:35 <Jeff>	Okay
+Feb 23 16:03:11 <Jeff>	Shall I post the paragraphs? or send them to the email?
+Feb 23 16:03:19 <DDRP>	post here please
+Feb 23 16:03:30 <Jeff>	Termination...
+Feb 23 16:03:32 <Jeff>	Termination.  Should you breach this Agreement, your right to use the Service and the Software shall terminate immediately and without notice.  You may also terminate this Agreement by simply discontinuing use of the Service and the Software.  In the event of any termination of this Agreement, the restrictions on your use of the Software and Service as set forth in "Restrictions on Use" shall survive such termination, and you agree to be b
+Feb 23 16:04:10 <Jeff>	and of course 
+Feb 23 16:04:14 <Jeff>	restrictions on use
+Feb 23 16:04:24 <DDRP>	Does anybody have anything to say about the TOS ammendment?
+Feb 23 16:04:28 <Jeff>	Restrictions on Use.  You may not redistribute the Server (Should you Have It) or provide others with access to the Service (including, without limitation,  providing third parties with access to the proprietary OverChat database).  You may not create or use any software other than the Software Approved to access the Service, without the express written authorization of the Server Admin or the Committee.  You may not modify, reverse engine
+Feb 23 16:05:08 <Jeff>	You may not adapt, alter, modify, translate, or create derivative works of the Software (including without limitation the communications protocols for the Service) without the express written authorization of DDRP.  Because OverChat's ability to offer the Service free of charge is dependent, on whole or in part, on generating advertising revenues from the Service, you may not block, disable or otherwise affect any advertising, advertisemen
+Feb 23 16:05:29 <Jeff>	You may not register with and log on and off the Service, send and receive instant messages via the Service or identify when other Service members are online except through use of Approved Software and Service and in conformance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement.  You may not collect or solicit screen names or password information.  Finally, you may not authorize or assist any third party to do any of the things described in 
+Feb 23 16:06:06 <Jeff>	and I do apologize for their massiveness
+Feb 23 16:06:14 <Jeff>	Those are modified from the AIM TOS
+Feb 23 16:06:18 *	pepsi likes the new TOS
+Feb 23 16:06:21 <Jeff>	but I saw importance in them
+Feb 23 16:06:35 <DDRP>	Well I thought that the onlu ammendment was termination.  The above seem sane.  Would it be possible for you to do a diff/patch of this?
+Feb 23 16:06:48 <DDRP>	Say, download the TOS, and then copy it
+Feb 23 16:06:58 <DDRP>	modify one copy and then run a diff?
+Feb 23 16:07:09 <DDRP>	You can download the appropriate diff/patch tools here:
+Feb 23 16:07:22 <DDRP>	ftp://ddrp.daybologic.com/pub/downloads/unxutils.zip
+Feb 23 16:08:34 <Jeff>	okay
+Feb 23 16:08:52 <Jeff>	having problems connecting
+Feb 23 16:08:54 <DDRP>	OK great, I propose that we accept Jeff's ammendment
+Feb 23 16:09:00 <DDRP>	We'll worry about that later
+Feb 23 16:09:04 <pepsi>	ill 2nd it
+Feb 23 16:09:12 <DDRP>	Excellent.
+
+Feb 23 16:09:21 <DDRP>	3) OC32's progress
+Feb 23 16:09:31 <DDRP>	Is TK able to attend this portion of the meeting?
+Feb 23 16:12:58 -->	data (~data@pcp455796pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net) has joined #overchat
+Feb 23 16:13:03 <DDRP>	In TK's absense I'll have to speak for him =/
+Feb 23 16:13:05 <Jeff>	Welcome Sir
+Feb 23 16:13:40 <DDRP>	Since TK installed FreeBSD I think OC32 has been temporaly shelved
+Feb 23 16:14:05 <DDRP>	Since TK is also starting a business I don't think we can expect OC32 to be one of the first clients to be finished and downloadable.
+Feb 23 16:14:07 <pepsi>	until he gets win back up =)
+Feb 23 16:14:29 <DDRP>	However, we'll bring this agenda item up again next week or whenever we decide to meet again.
+Feb 23 16:14:39 <pepsi>	ok
+Feb 23 16:14:43 <pepsi>	=D
+Feb 23 16:14:46 <DDRP>	Does anybody else have anything to say about OC32 before I move on to the next agenda item?
+Feb 23 16:14:47 <Jeff>	ok
+
+Feb 23 16:15:00 <DDRP>	4) Oberchatten's progress
+Feb 23 16:15:29 <DDRP>	Oberchatten has not been worked on for at least a week.  It uses the old TX/RX logic and seems to work well using it
+Feb 23 16:15:53 <DDRP>	in fact I sometimes considering raping it's code for the server but that would be a bit hard because the client side code is very much simplified
+Feb 23 16:16:10 <DDRP>	Apart from some bugs the client works and is not really a concern
+Feb 23 16:16:18 <DDRP>	it supports instant messaging and logins.
+Feb 23 16:16:30 <DDRP>	Does anybody have any questions about Oberchatten?
+Feb 23 16:16:35 <Jeff>	Right, If you could add names to the buttons as to their function
+Feb 23 16:16:49 <Jeff>	it would greatly improve looks at least which are not a concern at this point
+Feb 23 16:16:53 <Jeff>	but it will need to be done
+Feb 23 16:17:06 <Jeff>	that is in the IM window
+Feb 23 16:17:06 <DDRP>	Well they are actually hinted
+Feb 23 16:17:19 <DDRP>	if you leave the mouse cursor above anything it says what it does
+Feb 23 16:17:25 <DDRP>	I really need icons for them
+
+Feb 23 16:18:11 <DDRP>	5) The rights of users to promote and demote other users, specific rulesets based on a draft by Jeff
+Feb 23 16:18:36 <DDRP>	It is a shame the committee is so quiet and people don't want to have their say
+Feb 23 16:18:52 <Jeff>	Indeed
+Feb 23 16:18:53 <DDRP>	If you can get a proposer and seconder for your rulesets, Jeff, they go through
+Feb 23 16:18:59 <DDRP>	and nobody can object
+Feb 23 16:19:00 <pepsi>	i dont have much to say sorry dave
+Feb 23 16:19:14 <Jeff>	Has anyone here read them?
+Feb 23 16:19:23 *	DDRP has read them
+Feb 23 16:19:28 <pepsi>	i havent
+Feb 23 16:19:28 <AnGeL>	I 've read them
+Feb 23 16:19:36 <Jeff>	Any Comments?
+Feb 23 16:19:36 <AnGeL>	I propose we accept them.
+Feb 23 16:19:52 <pepsi>	can you post them jeff?
+Feb 23 16:20:10 <DDRP>	pepsi: I'll give you 10 mins to read them if you feel you want to have a say on it
+Feb 23 16:20:10 <Jeff>	They are a bit long 
+Feb 23 16:20:25 <pepsi>	ok dave 
+Feb 23 16:20:38 <pepsi>	jeff send them on private msg plz
+Feb 23 16:20:45 <Jeff>	okay
+Feb 23 16:20:45 <Jeff>	hold please
+Feb 23 16:20:48 <pepsi>	k
+Feb 23 16:20:55 <Jeff>	i need to locate them
+Feb 23 16:21:21 <Jeff>	okay
+Feb 23 16:22:01 *	SBeast has found them,  want me to post on me site ?
+Feb 23 16:22:12 <DDRP>	Yes please
+Feb 23 16:23:19 <SBeast>	www.dagsylad.cjb.net/oc.txt        lemme know if they're the wrong ones
+Feb 23 16:24:03 <Jeff>	Thanks Beast
+Feb 23 16:24:08 <DDRP>	That's the ones
+Feb 23 16:24:08 <SBeast>	no probs
+Feb 23 16:25:07 <Jeff>	while we are waiting
+Feb 23 16:25:14 <Jeff>	i will go and get breakfast
+Feb 23 16:25:46 <pepsi>	i 2nd them
+Feb 23 16:26:00 <DDRP>	They are accepted then
+
+Feb 23 16:26:08 <DDRP>	6) Server performance, one thread Vs many threads based on the event based model
+Feb 23 16:26:30 <DDRP>	This is something I know a reasonable amount about because I designed the server.
+Feb 23 16:26:48 <DDRP>	Currently the server is event based.  One thread
+Feb 23 16:26:53 <DDRP>	We have three threads:
+Feb 23 16:26:57 <DDRP>	a) Main thread
+Feb 23 16:27:09 <DDRP>	b) Heartbeat for second precision times
+Feb 23 16:27:17 <DDRP>	c) Deadman for deadlock detection
+Feb 23 16:27:56 <DDRP>	With the other system of one thread per user we eliminate the problems we've been having with packet compilation
+Feb 23 16:28:11 <DDRP>	the reason for this is that we'd be using blocking sockets.
+Feb 23 16:28:37 <DDRP>	Now a lot of programmers spit on blocking sockets and it also means that if there are 1,000 users there are 1,003 threads
+Feb 23 16:28:42 <DDRP>	pretty unmanageable
+Feb 23 16:28:55 <Jeff>	hmm
+Feb 23 16:29:11 <DDRP>	Does anybody know much about this and could we build a system where the server admin could decide at compile time which system he preferred?
+Feb 23 16:29:28 <Jeff>	I dont know anything about it
+Feb 23 16:29:51 <DDRP>	It is a bit technical for the committee
+Feb 23 16:29:52 <Jeff>	weight performance, ease of admin, and ease of use
+Feb 23 16:30:14 <DDRP>	Performane is a problem at the moment
+Feb 23 16:30:31 <DDRP>	When there are no server events to process the server waits for one second before it can process anymore
+Feb 23 16:30:42 <Jeff>	I must go help me mum with groceries
+Feb 23 16:30:42 <DDRP>	So if the server is busy, in theory it works
+Feb 23 16:30:47 <Jeff>	i shall return shortly
+Feb 23 16:30:54 <DDRP>	but if it's quiet performane for the few decreases
+Feb 23 16:31:29 <pepsi>	if its busy wouldnt it make it hard for users on lowbandwith such as myself to connect?
+Feb 23 16:32:02 <DDRP>	No but if you were the only one connecting it would be slow
+Feb 23 16:32:24 <DDRP>	since you would generate quite a few lone events which may be a second apart
+Feb 23 16:32:34 <DDRP>	I have also noticed a problem logging two people on at once
+Feb 23 16:32:48 <DDRP>	but that might be the blasted packet fragmentation problem again
+Feb 23 16:33:12 <DDRP>	No worries.  We'll forget this until we have fragmentation issues sorted out
+Feb 23 16:33:27 <DDRP>	then we can return to this issue another time once we see first hand what performane is like.
+Feb 23 16:33:33 <pepsi>	ok
+Feb 23 16:33:38 <DDRP>	I'll bring this up again a month or two in the future,
+
+Feb 23 16:33:44 <DDRP>	7) State of security of the OverChat system
+Feb 23 16:34:10 <DDRP>	OverChat is officially development software.  I don't say it's secure.  I'm sure it's not
+Feb 23 16:34:27 <DDRP>	Server admins must run the server as an unprivelleged user in a so called sandbox.
+Feb 23 16:34:36 <DDRP>	Running on Windows NT is not recommended.
+Feb 23 16:34:50 <DDRP>	A little while ago I discovered a nasty fault.
+Feb 23 16:35:05 <DDRP>	I have disclosed this issue because I know it can't be exploited.
+Feb 23 16:35:17 <DDRP>	If the source had been open people would have been able to exploit it
+Feb 23 16:35:27 <DDRP>	It would have been possible to register an email address like this:
+Feb 23 16:35:38 <DDRP>	Overlord@example.com;rm -rf /
+Feb 23 16:36:14 <DDRP>	When mailall/ocreg/ocquery mailed a user with that address it would erase the system or any files accessable to the process at the same time
+Feb 23 16:36:34 <DDRP>	the mail would have probally failed but the desired effect to destroy the OverChat server would have succeeded.
+Feb 23 16:36:50 <DDRP>	ocreg is still affected by this but registration is suspended.
+Feb 23 16:37:11 <DDRP>	I will be adding a registration feature to ocquery soon.
+Feb 23 16:37:30 <DDRP>	Sending long messages to other users can crash the server
+Feb 23 16:37:51 <DDRP>	Is this exploitable?  Possibly.  I have other bugs to fix first to get the system working first though,.
+Feb 23 16:38:05 <DDRP>	Does anybody have anything to say about OverChat's security before I move on?
+Feb 23 16:38:18 *	pepsi doesnt
+
+Feb 23 16:38:38 <DDRP>	8) INI files and why they are not good for performance
+Feb 23 16:38:53 <DDRP>	As we know, the OverChat user database is stored in an ini file.
+Feb 23 16:39:06 <DDRP>	I wrote a library to read and write it's database on UNIX
+Feb 23 16:39:13 <DDRP>	However, just like the Windows version it is slow
+Feb 23 16:39:37 <DDRP>	It means reading many bits of redundant information just to find the piece we are looking for.
+Feb 23 16:39:56 <DDRP>	For the information of the committee I have made the following changes:
+Feb 23 16:40:30 <DDRP>	I have created a new database format and a utility called convdb2 to convert the database
+Feb 23 16:40:55 <DDRP>	I am going to write a new INI reader for the server configuration
+Feb 23 16:41:09 <DDRP>	This will mean one has to send SIGHUP to the process to get it to reread the server config file
+Feb 23 16:41:20 <DDRP>	All of this will mean much faster lookups using ocquery and such
+Feb 23 16:41:37 <DDRP>	Does anybody have anything to add to my proposals and actions?
+Feb 23 16:41:47 <Jeff>	no
+
+Feb 23 16:41:56 <DDRP>	9) Speaker: Supreme Commander of OverChat
+Feb 23 16:42:31 <DDRP>	Nearly a year ago I went out to the garages out in the sun, was suffering a little hayfever and had few tissues =/
+Feb 23 16:42:53 <DDRP>	but I began to write a fantasy down on paper, a secret protocol I didn't have a name for
+Feb 23 16:43:22 <DDRP>	I had no knowledge of networking or threading though.  It was a bit flawed but not bad enough to need a total redesign.
+Feb 23 16:43:54 <DDRP>	It's been difficult building the system, and because people don't seem to understand my source nobody can help.  Those who can help don't have the time.
+Feb 23 16:44:29 <Jeff>	Stay strong my friends we will make it
+Feb 23 16:44:33 <DDRP>	I wish to thank especially the peripheral help of some members of the committee and TK for his client which I believe still can succeed if he finds the time
+Feb 23 16:45:11 <DDRP>	But I wish to give greatest thanks of all to Haesu without which we would still have no permanent high bandwidth central server to store the server on.
+Feb 23 16:45:49 <DDRP>	We have come so far and we're very close to making it work.  There are just small issues to resolve now before I mail out to everyone that the system is publically open
+Feb 23 16:46:07 <DDRP>	Don't get impatient or think it won't work because I can promise you all it will.
+Feb 23 16:46:24 <Jeff>	:-D
+Feb 23 16:46:26 <DDRP>	Those who believed in it from the beginning, like Jeff and TK will be rewarded with high privellege.
+Feb 23 16:46:44 <DDRP>	That's all I have to say for now.
+
+Feb 23 16:46:50 <DDRP>	10) Speaker: Representitive of TowardEX (our host), the Superior Mystic Controller
+Feb 23 16:47:02 *	Jeff claps
+Feb 23 16:47:08 <DDRP>	Haesu is not present so I shall defer this until next time
+Feb 23 16:47:17 <AnGeL>	Well said DDRP
+Feb 23 16:47:27 <DDRP>	Cheers =D
+
+Feb 23 16:47:38 <DDRP>	11) Any other business
+Feb 23 16:47:51 <DDRP>	Does anybody have anything they need to bring up before the committee?
+Feb 23 16:49:04 -->	acemiles_ed (IDENTITY@216-119-128-101.ipset8.wt.net) has joined #overchat
+Feb 23 16:49:19 <DDRP>	Welcome acemiles
+Feb 23 16:49:24 <acemiles_ed>	hello ddrp
+Feb 23 16:49:39 <pepsi>	i would like privelleges aswell
+Feb 23 16:49:57 <DDRP>	What sort of privellege, as you are currently 2 (ROOKIE_CHATTER)
+Feb 23 16:49:58 <pepsi>	albeit i havent contributed as much as jeff and ian but i have always supported overchat 
+Feb 23 16:50:18 <pepsi>	whatever the comittee sees fit
+Feb 23 16:50:33 <DDRP>	http://www.daybologic.co.uk/overchat/titles.txt
+Feb 23 16:50:38 <pepsi>	whatever the chairman would see fit if any
+Feb 23 16:52:01 <DDRP>	You are obviously not marked down as committee member
+Feb 23 16:52:04 <DDRP>	this is a mistake
+Feb 23 16:52:17 <DDRP>	pepsi: I tell you what I do need
+Feb 23 16:52:21 <DDRP>	that that's a chairman
+Feb 23 16:52:37 <acemiles_ed>	did the meeting start an hour ago?
+Feb 23 16:52:41 <DDRP>	Yes
+Feb 23 16:52:42 <Jeff>	about
+Feb 23 16:53:01 <acemiles_ed>	Agenda 
+Feb 23 16:53:01 <acemiles_ed>	Saturday 23rd February 2002, 16:00 GMT (root zone) (11:00 Central Time, 
+Feb 23 16:53:01 <acemiles_ed>	10:00 Eastern time, 09:00 Montain Time, 08:00 Pacific time).
+Feb 23 16:53:07 <acemiles_ed>	its 11 now
+Feb 23 16:53:23 <pepsi>	dave what is it that you need?
+Feb 23 16:53:29 >time<	CTCP ACEMILES_ED
+Feb 23 16:53:37 >acemiles_ed<	CTCP TIME
+Feb 23 16:53:37 -acemiles_ed-	TIME Sat Feb 23 10:57:12 2002
+Feb 23 16:53:46 <DDRP>	What time zone are you in?
+Feb 23 16:53:50 <acemiles_ed>	Central
+Feb 23 16:54:02 <Jeff>	oh
+Feb 23 16:54:07 <Jeff>	eastern and central got switched
+Feb 23 16:54:12 <pepsi>	ace it was mistake
+Feb 23 16:54:34 <DDRP>	Somebody mind explaining this?
+Feb 23 16:54:49 <pepsi>	what is it you wanted explained DDRP?
+Feb 23 16:55:18 <DDRP>	Central Time, US and Canada == GMT - 6
+Feb 23 16:55:21 <acemiles_ed>	16:55:07 Sat Feb 23 2002 in GMT converts to
+Feb 23 16:55:21 <acemiles_ed>	10:55:07 Sat Feb 23 2002 in CST/CDT
+Feb 23 16:55:36 <acemiles_ed>	DST
+Feb 23 16:55:42 <acemiles_ed>	is in effect now
+Feb 23 16:56:18 <AnGeL>	daylight saving time is not in effect in eastern til next month
+Feb 23 16:56:30 <DDRP>	Bloody great >=|
+Feb 23 16:56:31 <Jeff>	that must have been what went down
+Feb 23 16:56:37 <Jeff>	crazyness
+Feb 23 16:56:52 <DDRP>	It's time daylight savings time was banned
+Feb 23 16:57:00 <AnGeL>	lol
+Feb 23 16:57:17 <acemiles_ed>	haha
+Feb 23 16:57:17 <Jeff>	I second that!
+Feb 23 16:57:25 <pepsi>	=)
+Feb 23 16:57:32 <DDRP>	I propose that this meeting is timed in GMT, even during summer time in the UK
+Feb 23 16:57:45 <DDRP>	and that you will all have to do your own conversions as you know what your time is not me
+Feb 23 16:57:45 <AnGeL>	I second.
+Feb 23 16:57:52 <Jeff>	lol
+Feb 23 16:57:55 <Jeff>	ok
+Feb 23 16:58:05 <DDRP>	The motion is passed >=)
+Feb 23 16:58:28 <DDRP>	pepsi: Would you chair the committee?
+Feb 23 16:58:46 -->	smat (~smat@dhcp-103-1-104-1.msns.sm.ptd.net) has joined #overchat
+Feb 23 16:58:59 <pepsi>	that would conisist of?
+Feb 23 16:59:13 <DDRP>	Doing what I have done today next time a meeting is called
+Feb 23 16:59:19 <pepsi>	yes
+Feb 23 16:59:22 <pepsi>	id be glad to
+Feb 23 16:59:33 <DDRP>	I propose we elect pepsi chairman of the OverChat committee
+Feb 23 16:59:42 <AnGeL>	I second
+Feb 23 16:59:48 <smat>	lol
+Feb 23 16:59:50 <smat>	woops
+Feb 23 16:59:53 <DDRP>	pepsi is elected
+Feb 23 16:59:53 <smat>	hi angel
+Feb 23 16:59:53 <AnGeL>	O:) 
+Feb 23 17:00:00 <smat>	congrats pepsi
+Feb 23 17:00:01 <AnGeL>	Hi smat O:)
+Feb 23 17:00:03 <smat>	=)
+Feb 23 17:00:05 <DDRP>	12) Date of the next meeting
+Feb 23 17:00:07 <Jeff>	C0ngrats!
+Feb 23 17:00:14 <pepsi>	thanx yall =D
+Feb 23 17:00:15 ---	pepsi is now known as Chairman[pepsi]
+Feb 23 17:00:18 <smat>	lol
+Feb 23 17:00:20 <acemiles_ed>	lol
+Feb 23 17:00:21 ---	Chairman[pepsi] is now known as pepsi
+Feb 23 17:00:23 <DDRP>	Does anybody have a proposal for the date of the next meeting?
+Feb 23 17:00:27 <smat>	hello ed =)
+Feb 23 17:00:31 <acemiles_ed>	hiya smat
+Feb 23 17:00:38 <smat>	in a month?
+Feb 23 17:00:51 <pepsi>	dave it really depends on what issues there are to be discussed
+Feb 23 17:00:54 <Jeff>	hmm
+Feb 23 17:01:06 <DDRP>	March 23rd 2002?  Saturday?  16:00?
+Feb 23 17:01:20 <smat>	lemme check
+Feb 23 17:01:22 <DDRP>	I am sure issues will come up with OverChat
+Feb 23 17:01:32 <pepsi>	i would say every 2 weeks
+Feb 23 17:01:34 <acemiles_ed>	works for me (as of right now)
+Feb 23 17:01:36 <DDRP>	pepsi: Are you OK with preparing an agenda?
+Feb 23 17:01:46 <DDRP>	http://www.daybologic.co.uk/overchat/downloads/agenda1.txt
+Feb 23 17:01:52 <DDRP>	That was this month's agenda
+Feb 23 17:02:04 <smat>	every 2 weeks seems like a lot
+Feb 23 17:02:04 <pepsi>	yes dave i believe i am
+Feb 23 17:02:15 <DDRP>	Excellent
+Feb 23 17:02:18 <smat>	i spend way to much time in meetings
+Feb 23 17:02:32 <pepsi>	dave send out a memo that if anyone feels something should be discussed email erik@towardex.net
+Feb 23 17:02:37 <acemiles_ed>	i agree smat :)
+Feb 23 17:02:52 <DDRP>	OK
+Feb 23 17:02:59 <DDRP>	The date and date are agreed.
+Feb 23 17:03:11 <smat>	yay!
+Feb 23 17:03:23 <DDRP>	pepsi: Aknowledged
+Feb 23 17:03:24 <smat>	i have another suggestion, if it's okay
+Feb 23 17:03:29 <Jeff>	okay
+Feb 23 17:03:29 <DDRP>	Will do, right after the meeting
+Feb 23 17:03:48 <pepsi>	cheers =)
+Feb 23 17:04:07 <Jeff>	I apologize for leaving before the close, but I must head out, I have work soon
+Feb 23 17:04:14 <DDRP>	OK Jeff
+Feb 23 17:04:18 <DDRP>	smat: Issue please?
+Feb 23 17:04:20 <pepsi>	g'day jeff
+Feb 23 17:04:24 <smat>	well if the agenda does not raise issues that directly involve a member, that the meetings arent mandatory
+Feb 23 17:04:31 <smat>	lates jeff
+Feb 23 17:04:32 <Jeff>	Im very happy to see you all here, thanks for amending me proposals! see ya!
+Feb 23 17:04:40 <Jeff>	bye bye!
+Feb 23 17:04:44 <AnGeL>	bye jeff
+Feb 23 17:04:44 <smat>	byeeeeeee
+Feb 23 17:04:48 <--	Jeff has quit ()
+Feb 23 17:05:09 <acemiles_ed>	I have a quick question - after smat.
+Feb 23 17:05:23 <smat>	i spend way to much time in meetings that i really dont belong in
+Feb 23 17:05:29 <DDRP>	Meetings are mandatory but somebody who doesn't attend meetings isn't going to make themselves that popular with the chairman
+Feb 23 17:05:40 <DDRP>	I mean they are not mandatory
+Feb 23 17:05:52 <DDRP>	If people don't want their opinion heard, they don't turn up
+Feb 23 17:06:02 <smat>	david i am not gonna waste a precious day off in a meeting at which i am of no use
+Feb 23 17:06:21 <DDRP>	13) Meeting close
+Feb 23 17:06:27 <DDRP>	The meeting closed at 17:06
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+# Tell versions [3.59,3.63) of GNU make to not export all variables.
+# Otherwise a system limit (for SysV at least) may be exceeded.
+.NOEXPORT:
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+Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:25:27 -0600
+Subject: [overchat]
+Reply-To: overchat@yahoogroups.com
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+X-RCPT-TO: <Overlord@DayboLogic.co.uk>
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+
+
+
+The Next meeting for the OverChat Committee is to take place on March 23rd at 1pm US central time
+
+The agenda is as follows...
+
+1. Chairmans opening remarks..
+
+2. Discuss: Should OverChat groups ignore/support/enforce instances
+
+3. Discuss: Should we conform to internet standard time
+
+4. Speech from the Superiour mystic controller (Haesu)
+
+5. Does the clearence level need to be so broad (users from 2-255)
+
+6. Network backup procedures.
+
+7. How does the Committee like the interface of OberChatten..
+
+8. Any other business.
+
+9. Date of next meeting.
+
+10. Close of meeting..
+Mar 23 19:08:55 <pepsi>	1.	Chairmans opening remarks
+Mar 23 19:09:10 <pepsi>	Hello everyone it is time to begin the 2nd OverChat committee meeting
+Mar 23 19:09:25 <smat>	Hi pepsi, glad to be here
+Mar 23 19:09:31 <blahdy-bleh>	Hi there, glad to be here =)
+Mar 23 19:09:39 <pepsi>	First on todays agenda we shall discuss  Should OverChat groups ignore/support/enforce instances.
+Mar 23 19:10:16 <blahdy-bleh>	What exactly does it mean by ignore/support/enforce instances?
+Mar 23 19:10:17 <DDRP>	My opinion is that instances cause a fight and needless retries of people attempting to re-enter a chat
+Mar 23 19:10:26 <blahdy-bleh>	Ah
+Mar 23 19:10:52 <pepsi>	like aim haesu
+Mar 23 19:10:56 <blahdy-bleh>	I see.
+Mar 23 19:11:01 -->	SBeast (~Dagsylad@the.pub.net) has joined #Overchat
+Mar 23 19:11:03 <pepsi>	i feel that it depends on the amount of users allowed in a single room
+Mar 23 19:11:10 <blahdy-bleh>	There must be an ignore function in the chat room.
+Mar 23 19:11:19 <DDRP>	So what I am saying is that should we even support them, let alone enforce them
+Mar 23 19:11:26 <h00t`>	I agree with DDRP, in that if an ignore feature is applied to the service, a person has the ability to limit what traffic is viewed while in a particular room.
+Mar 23 19:11:37 <pepsi>	thinks that when the room is being created that the creator should be able to choose the amount of users allowed
+Mar 23 19:12:02 <DDRP>	Yes but on IRC it's a hard limit, no new instance is created, generally
+Mar 23 19:12:03 <blahdy-bleh>	Yes. but now what about public chat rooms? Would we have any?
+Mar 23 19:12:11 <blahdy-bleh>	or is it irc-like moderated chat rooms only?
+Mar 23 19:12:26 <DDRP>	Yes there are 6 exchanges
+Mar 23 19:12:32 <blahdy-bleh>	Ah okay
+Mar 23 19:12:36 <DDRP>	General is not moderated
+Mar 23 19:12:45 <DDRP>	unless a god enters it and decides to clear out the muck
+Mar 23 19:13:00 <h00t`>	::chuckle::   : x
+Mar 23 19:13:07 <blahdy-bleh>	yea
+Mar 23 19:13:10 <pepsi>	dave whats the max amount of users per room
+Mar 23 19:13:24 <DDRP>	Well there is currently no hard coded limit
+Mar 23 19:13:35 <blahdy-bleh>	may be 36?
+Mar 23 19:13:41 <DDRP>	If that does change it will only be a maximum for technical reasons like 2048
+Mar 23 19:13:43 <DDRP>	or something
+Mar 23 19:13:58 <smat>	holy shit, that's alota chatters!
+Mar 23 19:14:03 <DDRP>	but if I use a limked list there will be no limit to start with
+Mar 23 19:14:19 <pepsi>	does anyone else like the idea of the creator being able to choose the amount of maximum users
+Mar 23 19:14:21 <DDRP>	I've seen chats with 200 people in them
+Mar 23 19:14:26 <pepsi>	?
+Mar 23 19:14:35 <blahdy-bleh>	Now you must think of the server load however..
+Mar 23 19:14:39 <blahdy-bleh>	When we have a lot of users
+Mar 23 19:14:49 <blahdy-bleh>	chat room swith 200+ users may be too much... i dunno
+Mar 23 19:14:53 <blahdy-bleh>	rooms with*
+Mar 23 19:15:14 <DDRP>	Yes i would be relaying a lot of messages
+Mar 23 19:15:29 <h00t`>	Would it make  a difference if there are 200 in one room, or 40 in 5 rooms, wouldn't the load be the same?
+Mar 23 19:15:30 <blahdy-bleh>	I think what we must do is create seperate servers for chat services only.
+Mar 23 19:15:30 <DDRP>	but when we have that many users, hopefully we could make cash from it to pay for bandwidth somewhere
+Mar 23 19:15:44 <blahdy-bleh>	Have this amount of server for IM/login
+Mar 23 19:15:49 <blahdy-bleh>	and have another set of servers for chat rooms
+Mar 23 19:15:50 *	SBeast likes pepsi's idea,  its like when an irc operator limits the max uses in a channel innit
+Mar 23 19:15:53 <blahdy-bleh>	to distribute the load
+Mar 23 19:16:11 <blahdy-bleh>	Once we have many users, buying bandwidth is not an issue.
+Mar 23 19:16:12 <pepsi>	i agree with haesu
+Mar 23 19:16:24 <DDRP>	Yeah I like the design issue of having seperate chat servers for each exchange
+Mar 23 19:16:29 <blahdy-bleh>	Bandwidth is quite cheap in this area if more bandwidth needs to be alloted for overchat network
+Mar 23 19:16:42 <DDRP>	it would of course cause possible security implications and a lot of work but it may be worth it in the long run
+Mar 23 19:16:58 <DDRP>	perhaps making chat a part of overchatd and then later rewritng as a seperate exchange as demand grows
+Mar 23 19:17:40 <blahdy-bleh>	could do that yes
+Mar 23 19:18:07 <blahdy-bleh>	but first of all the next critical part after IM/ocquery fix is being able to network-link the official servers
+Mar 23 19:18:17 <blahdy-bleh>	obviously one server cannot hold thousand users.
+Mar 23 19:18:58 <DDRP>	Yeah.  I really have no clue how we'll do it but I know it has to be done.  It will need to be done over SSL
+Mar 23 19:18:59 <blahdy-bleh>	acemiles is here
+Mar 23 19:19:08 <blahdy-bleh>	well
+Mar 23 19:19:15 <blahdy-bleh>	SSL is not necessary.
+Mar 23 19:19:23 <blahdy-bleh>	make network-links on a seperate port number
+Mar 23 19:19:26 <pepsi>	SBeast: if someone would seccond you agreeing with me then committee will have passed my idea =X
+Mar 23 19:19:33 <smat>	can one server automatically bounce to another if it's full?
+Mar 23 19:19:38 <blahdy-bleh>	then the supreme mystic controller (me) can filter out that port for rest of the network except the server subnet ;)
+Mar 23 19:19:43 <DDRP>	But then they'd all run on one machine, wouldn't they?
+Mar 23 19:19:56 *	SBeast seconds pepsi's idea
+Mar 23 19:20:00 <blahdy-bleh>	DDRP: say we have two servers
+Mar 23 19:20:14 <blahdy-bleh>	each using like say 9999 port for linking each other
+Mar 23 19:20:22 <blahdy-bleh>	port 9999 will be filtered out behind the overchat network area
+Mar 23 19:20:27 <blahdy-bleh>	so that no one can intercept the servers
+Mar 23 19:20:31 <smat>	kinda like how photoshop uses hd space for ram if it needs it?
+Mar 23 19:20:40 <smat>	or should i just shutup?
+Mar 23 19:20:41 <DDRP>	Understood
+Mar 23 19:20:48 <blahdy-bleh>	smat: no keep going we are listening :)
+Mar 23 19:20:55 <smat>	yay!
+Mar 23 19:21:09 <smat>	so in other words the servers are linked (by a lan?)
+Mar 23 19:21:33 <blahdy-bleh>	yes
+Mar 23 19:21:41 <smat>	and they pool resources, sorta thing
+Mar 23 19:21:41 <blahdy-bleh>	the overchat servers will be in their own LAN
+Mar 23 19:21:41 <smat>	sweet!
+Mar 23 19:21:41 <blahdy-bleh>	and they will be linked each other to distribute server load.
+Mar 23 19:21:41 <smat>	that rocks
+Mar 23 19:21:47 <h00t`>	::nod::
+Mar 23 19:21:54 *	smat is so proud of herself right now
+Mar 23 19:21:58 <blahdy-bleh>	and then the switch that brings the overchat LAN to the internet filters out critical/confidential port numbers that is used to link the servers.
+Mar 23 19:21:58 <h00t`>	::is too::  : x
+Mar 23 19:22:02 <DDRP>	I think I can do it but I'm still confused about migration, which is used by AIM, for example to actually move a user to another server if demand grows, it's done absolutely transparently, I mean how does one move somebody's socket to another machine?
+Mar 23 19:22:04 <smat>	i hope someone is logging this for posterity
+Mar 23 19:22:08 <blahdy-bleh>	so that no one from the internet can intercept the server operations.
+Mar 23 19:22:28 <smat>	ty h00t =)
+Mar 23 19:22:33 <blahdy-bleh>	DDRP: may be we could look at some RFCs for irc?
+Mar 23 19:22:33 <smat>	right
+Mar 23 19:22:38 <blahdy-bleh>	and some source code for hybrid?
+Mar 23 19:22:57 <DDRP>	Good plan
+Mar 23 19:23:15 <DDRP>	I'm not sure IRC does it however,
+Mar 23 19:23:24 <DDRP>	I think when one is on one server one stays there
+Mar 23 19:23:26 <DDRP>	until one reconnects
+Mar 23 19:23:41 <blahdy-bleh>	hmm that's true
+Mar 23 19:23:52 <blahdy-bleh>	and one server goes down, then they disconnect
+Mar 23 19:23:52 <blahdy-bleh>	due to network split
+Mar 23 19:24:12 <blahdy-bleh>	isn't the OSCAR protocol open sourced anyway?
+Mar 23 19:24:16 <DDRP>	Nah
+Mar 23 19:24:17 <h00t`>	seems impossible for some users to be on one server, other users on another, and all be in the same chat.  Am I wrong?
+Mar 23 19:24:21 <blahdy-bleh>	I think AOL released some of it.
+Mar 23 19:24:21 <smat>	could say the "a" server look at the others in the lan as just simple h/ds?
+Mar 23 19:24:22 <DDRP>	Not unless some miracle happened
+Mar 23 19:24:40 <DDRP>	h00t`: You are wrong =)
+Mar 23 19:24:44 <SBeast>	toc is opensource :-X
+Mar 23 19:24:54 <h00t`>	=)
+Mar 23 19:25:18 <DDRP>	Yeah but TOC is not really open source
+Mar 23 19:25:22 <DDRP>	Client side is open source
+Mar 23 19:25:24 <blahdy-bleh>	DDRP: let's think of it this way...
+Mar 23 19:25:26 <DDRP>	but the TOC proxy is closed
+Mar 23 19:25:35 <blahdy-bleh>	for long term solutions
+Mar 23 19:25:41 <blahdy-bleh>	i think this is what we must do
+Mar 23 19:25:49 <blahdy-bleh>	we must have seperate servers that contain database of users
+Mar 23 19:25:54 <blahdy-bleh>	and seperate servers that log users into the network
+Mar 23 19:26:02 <blahdy-bleh>	and seperate servers for IM+chat
+Mar 23 19:26:09 <blahdy-bleh>	basically the useres authenticate into the network
+Mar 23 19:26:13 <blahdy-bleh>	instead of single server
+Mar 23 19:26:39 <DDRP>	The cookie mechanism =/
+Mar 23 19:26:50 <blahdy-bleh>	the login servers are where they authenticate into, then login serveres makes sure that data base servers are updated to ensure that user is 'logged in'
+Mar 23 19:27:07 <blahdy-bleh>	then IM and chatting servers would query the database servers to actually find online users
+Mar 23 19:27:19 <blahdy-bleh>	i do believe thats how AIM is setup in the backend
+Mar 23 19:27:43 <blahdy-bleh>	so it doesnt matter if a chatting server goes down, the users are logged into database servers anyway
+Mar 23 19:27:52 <DDRP>	Yes that would work.  I can do that.
+Mar 23 19:28:02 <smat>	cool
+Mar 23 19:28:19 <h00t`>	must be so, I remember times when IMs were not available, and buddy lists even, but general chat rooms were accessable.
+Mar 23 19:28:22 <DDRP>	No obvious security issue comes to mind
+Mar 23 19:28:25 <blahdy-bleh>	exactly
+Mar 23 19:28:27 <DDRP>	It can work I think
+Mar 23 19:28:41 <blahdy-bleh>	security is not a huge issue right now between the servers.
+Mar 23 19:28:47 <DDRP>	I've got to ensure double logins are impossible of course, which they currently are not
+Mar 23 19:28:51 <blahdy-bleh>	b/c it will be filtered by the upstream switch
+Mar 23 19:28:59 <blahdy-bleh>	yes
+Mar 23 19:29:13 <blahdy-bleh>	so we'd eventually have seperate set of servers for database, login, and chatting+IM
+Mar 23 19:29:19 <blahdy-bleh>	and many be eventually buddylist server
+Mar 23 19:29:20 <DDRP>	It would make the service more reliable
+Mar 23 19:29:25 <h00t`>	clone free?
+Mar 23 19:29:30 <smat>	clone free would be awesome
+Mar 23 19:29:35 <h00t`>	::cheers::
+Mar 23 19:29:35 <blahdy-bleh>	the login servers are the ones that interact with users to let them into our network
+Mar 23 19:29:45 <blahdy-bleh>	the users login thru the login servers, then login servers update the databases on the db servers
+Mar 23 19:29:51 <blahdy-bleh>	then db servers are the ones that hold users online.
+Mar 23 19:29:54 <pepsi>	i agree clone free =X
+Mar 23 19:30:25 <DDRP>	OK so, I would scrap the online list
+Mar 23 19:30:29 <smat>	ty pepsi
+Mar 23 19:30:34 <DDRP>	(what is currently in server_core)
+Mar 23 19:30:50 <blahdy-bleh>	yea that need to go on seperate server
+Mar 23 19:30:56 <blahdy-bleh>	and the servers need to link each other
+Mar 23 19:31:08 <blahdy-bleh>	try to make them link to a port otehr than 3277 or whatever we use for users
+Mar 23 19:31:27 <DDRP>	I declare that 327x is reserved for OverChat
+Mar 23 19:31:28 <DDRP>	>=)
+Mar 23 19:31:35 <DDRP>	We are currently using 7,8,9
+Mar 23 19:31:40 <DDRP>	8 == DLOB
+Mar 23 19:31:44 <blahdy-bleh>	hehe
+Mar 23 19:31:50 <smat>	if you make it clone-free does that mean that users couldnt have multiple nicks, or does that mean they simply couldnt use more than one nick?
+Mar 23 19:31:58 <blahdy-bleh>	use 3270 for server operations then
+Mar 23 19:32:08 <smat>	at the same time, i mean
+Mar 23 19:32:26 <pepsi>	only ONE nick at a time smat
+Mar 23 19:32:26 <DDRP>	This will involve a lot of restructuring
+Mar 23 19:32:32 <DDRP>	I hope everybody realises this
+Mar 23 19:32:34 <smat>	k
+Mar 23 19:32:49 <smat>	but they could have diff nicks if they chose to?
+Mar 23 19:32:49 <pepsi>	you can have 20 nicks but can only use one at a time
+Mar 23 19:32:54 <smat>	okay, cool
+Mar 23 19:32:58 <smat>	just wanted to clarify
+Mar 23 19:33:03 <DDRP>	There is a subconversation going on here where some of you don't understand the clone concept
+Mar 23 19:33:23 <smat>	i'm sorry david if that's my fault
+Mar 23 19:33:24 <DDRP>	Currently pepsi may sign in to OverChat 200 times as pepsi
+Mar 23 19:33:28 <pepsi>	i realise it dave but isnt that what a committees for?
+Mar 23 19:33:32 <DDRP>	That will be stopped
+Mar 23 19:33:48 <DDRP>	Only 8 nicknames may sign on from one IP address
+Mar 23 19:33:49 <smat>	David, i'm not a programmer but i'm trying to understand
+Mar 23 19:33:56 <DDRP>	purely for the sake of NAT
+Mar 23 19:34:02 <blahdy-bleh>	ddrp that will be a problem.
+Mar 23 19:34:03 <DDRP>	clones are officially not support
+Mar 23 19:34:07 <DDRP>	they waste bandwidth
+Mar 23 19:34:12 <blahdy-bleh>	ddrp there are organizations using NATs everywhere.
+Mar 23 19:34:17 <blahdy-bleh>	Let me give you an example.
+Mar 23 19:34:30 <blahdy-bleh>	Monster.com, a major internet company
+Mar 23 19:34:30 <blahdy-bleh>	uses NAT for 9000 machines.
+Mar 23 19:34:35 <blahdy-bleh>	clearly 8 per IP will not work.
+Mar 23 19:34:41 <DDRP>	=o
+Mar 23 19:34:53 <DDRP>	As I understand it, AIM limits 13 per IP
+Mar 23 19:34:58 <blahdy-bleh>	just make it like aim.
+Mar 23 19:35:04 <blahdy-bleh>	no
+Mar 23 19:35:19 <h00t`>	DDRP:  that references what is probably the answer to a question I had, if someone has the resources, i.e. bandwidth etc, could they possibly bog down the system by entering the same nick numerous times?
+Mar 23 19:35:24 <blahdy-bleh>	i've signed on 30 times from different machines on a company network
+Mar 23 19:35:30 <blahdy-bleh>	all simultaneously
+Mar 23 19:35:30 <blahdy-bleh>	using different nicks of course
+Mar 23 19:35:40 <DDRP>	hmm
+Mar 23 19:35:42 <blahdy-bleh>	AOL clearly understands that there are coporations using NATs
+Mar 23 19:35:46 <DDRP>	well what's a good level to prevent abuse?
+Mar 23 19:35:46 <blahdy-bleh>	corporations*
+Mar 23 19:35:52 <blahdy-bleh>	13/IP definately is not going to work
+Mar 23 19:36:00 <blahdy-bleh>	well.
+Mar 23 19:36:40 <blahdy-bleh>	we could do this
+Mar 23 19:36:44 <blahdy-bleh>	when the client software logs on
+Mar 23 19:36:53 <blahdy-bleh>	it sends the server the machine's Ip address
+Mar 23 19:36:53 <blahdy-bleh>	so even if its NATted
+Mar 23 19:36:58 <blahdy-bleh>	the client sends the server the actual Ip
+Mar 23 19:37:05 <blahdy-bleh>	actually, that won't really work very well either
+Mar 23 19:37:12 <blahdy-bleh>	b/c there are networks using similar IP schemes using RFC1918
+Mar 23 19:37:19 <DDRP>	It works until some script kiddies find a way around it
+Mar 23 19:37:37 <blahdy-bleh>	well i dont think clone-free is something to really worry about right now though.
+Mar 23 19:37:42 <pepsi>	brb
+Mar 23 19:37:53 <smat>	i agree and was just about to make a suggestion if i may?
+Mar 23 19:38:02 <blahdy-bleh>	sure
+Mar 23 19:38:08 <DDRP>	smat: I don't know if you may, the chairman is gone =/
+Mar 23 19:38:11 <smat>	i think this has raised an important issue
+Mar 23 19:38:27 <smat>	david you're the supreme commander ...
+Mar 23 19:38:32 <blahdy-bleh>	lol
+Mar 23 19:38:32 <blahdy-bleh>	heh
+Mar 23 19:38:38 <smat>	anyways
+Mar 23 19:38:38 <blahdy-bleh>	smat: go for it
+Mar 23 19:38:42 <DDRP>	What's the issue?
+Mar 23 19:38:56 <smat>	my suggestion is that you programmers work on this and see what you can come up with for the next meeting
+Mar 23 19:39:05 <smat>	rather than trying to hash out the complexities here
+Mar 23 19:39:23 <smat>	the issue of cloning/multiple nicks, etc
+Mar 23 19:39:34 <DDRP>	Well let's get back to the point of this thread.  Instances of chats
+Mar 23 19:39:40 <DDRP>	Are we going to support them?
+Mar 23 19:39:49 <smat>	oay
+Mar 23 19:39:54 <smat>	errr okay
+Mar 23 19:39:54 <h00t`>	The commitee needs to be aware of the security concerns, a good dose of collective common sense can never hurt.
+Mar 23 19:40:09 *	smat 2nds h00t
+Mar 23 19:40:13 <blahdy-bleh>	Yes.
+Mar 23 19:40:34 <DDRP>	A committee ignorant of the mechanisms in place is an ignorant and foolish one
+Mar 23 19:40:43 <blahdy-bleh>	I think we should discuss about security during the network =-part
+Mar 23 19:40:58 <h00t`>	aye.
+Mar 23 19:41:20 <smat>	then perhaps i should leave or just be quiet?
+Mar 23 19:41:41 <h00t`>	Wasn't the origanl issue at hand "allowing or disallowing size limits to chat"?
+Mar 23 19:41:51 <DDRP>	Yes sir
+Mar 23 19:41:56 <DDRP>	and what is your opinion?
+Mar 23 19:41:56 <h00t`>	smat :  no, please.
+Mar 23 19:42:04 <smat>	ty h00t
+Mar 23 19:42:09 *	SBeast has an idea, prolly a bag-o-****e but here go's ... when the clients log on, could they not drop a token or summut in some temp folder, and delete it when the client disconnects, and every time the user connects to an oc server, it looks for a token in some predefined location, if it finds it, it realises they are logged on already and don't let them access,  kinda like cookies etcetc   >=/
+Mar 23 19:42:26 <blahdy-bleh>	SBeast: doing so will put severe load on the server.
+Mar 23 19:42:36 <SBeast>	>=(
+Mar 23 19:42:49 <blahdy-bleh>	file system operations on tons of user logins per second = disaster :-/
+Mar 23 19:42:54 <smat>	nice try beast =\
+Mar 23 19:43:05 <DDRP>	You don' need a token as a file, it will be marked in the database under their nickname
+Mar 23 19:43:15 <h00t`>	If  demand on the resouces of the server network is not an issue, I think it's unneccessary to deal with it right now, in leiu of more important security issues.
+Mar 23 19:43:15 <blahdy-bleh>	hmm
+Mar 23 19:43:20 <blahdy-bleh>	DDRP: that works
+Mar 23 19:43:25 <blahdy-bleh>	SBeast: cool idea :)
+Mar 23 19:43:30 <blahdy-bleh>	except that we can't do it in file systme based way
+Mar 23 19:43:36 <blahdy-bleh>	gotta do it on DB style
+Mar 23 19:43:36 <SBeast>	=)
+Mar 23 19:43:47 <DDRP>	Yeah that's easy enough
+Mar 23 19:43:53 <DDRP>	we already have a deleted flag on records
+Mar 23 19:43:58 <DDRP>	I can just add a logged in flag
+Mar 23 19:43:59 <pepsi>	i say we do not support instances
+Mar 23 19:44:05 <blahdy-bleh>	Excuse me all committee members, but I must brb for about 10 minutes due to a critical issue that has just happened.
+Mar 23 19:44:08 <DDRP>	all systems will share it to determine who is on
+Mar 23 19:44:14 <h00t`>	Beasty:  ::high five::
+Mar 23 19:44:18 <DDRP>	OK Captain
+Mar 23 19:44:19 <smat>	oh dear
+Mar 23 19:44:37 <DDRP>	Well I happen to agree with not supporting instances
+Mar 23 19:44:42 <pepsi>	sorry for leavin my step dad was beatin the fsck outta some d00d who littered in front of my house
+Mar 23 19:44:49 <DDRP>	they just cause people to go in and out in and out in and out of a chat
+Mar 23 19:44:53 <smat>	shell we recess in lieu of the chairman and the captain?
+Mar 23 19:44:54 <DDRP>	trying to get into a better instance
+Mar 23 19:44:58 <pepsi>	its passed instances WILL NOT be supported
+Mar 23 19:45:03 <pepsi>	next agenda item...
+Mar 23 19:45:08 <smat>	i agree with david
+Mar 23 19:45:13 <h00t`>	agreed.
+Mar 23 19:45:30 <DDRP>	Seems almost unanimous then =)  What's next Mr. Chairman?
+Mar 23 19:46:02 <pepsi>	in lieu?
+Mar 23 19:46:21 <smat>	um, i wasnt aware you had returned pepsi, forgive me please
+Mar 23 19:46:27 <pepsi>	should we conform the time of our meeting to internet standard time
+Mar 23 19:46:27 <pepsi>	this was proposed by ed
+Mar 23 19:46:51 <pepsi>	it is ok smatt =X
+Mar 23 19:46:59 <pepsi>	but ed told me he was goin to propose it himself
+Mar 23 19:47:04 <h00t`>	he withdrew the proposal.
+Mar 23 19:47:15 <pepsi>	ok thanx h00t
+Mar 23 19:47:24 <DDRP>	Yeah I confirm that
+Mar 23 19:47:25 <h00t`>	I have a suggestion.
+Mar 23 19:47:30 <pepsi>	it is a bit late but angel coulnt make it due to work
+Mar 23 19:47:36 <smat>	i dont really care, this time of day suits me very well
+Mar 23 19:47:36 <DDRP>	it was posted this morning that Ed had found many flaws in the system
+Mar 23 19:47:40 <DDRP>	and no long supported it
+Mar 23 19:47:41 <pepsi>	she told me earlier this week
+Mar 23 19:47:58 <pepsi>	h00t can it wait for the arising matters?
+Mar 23 19:48:21 <pepsi>	it is now time for Speech from the Superiour Mystic Controller
+Mar 23 19:48:27 <h00t`>	It has to do with the time issue.
+Mar 23 19:48:32 <pepsi>	ok then
+Mar 23 19:48:37 <pepsi>	let it flow h00ter
+Mar 23 19:48:43 <smat>	i propose we let h00t have his say
+Mar 23 19:48:52 <DDRP>	er, seconded
+Mar 23 19:48:57 <pepsi>	i agree smatty =)
+Mar 23 19:49:04 <smat>	=) ty
+Mar 23 19:49:10 <h00t`>	We could all bookmark a particular web page, which easily supplies the mean to adjust to time zone differences.
+Mar 23 19:49:15 <h00t`>	http://www.worldtimezone.com/
+Mar 23 19:49:20 <smat>	i second that proposal
+Mar 23 19:49:28 <smat>	great idea
+Mar 23 19:49:33 <pepsi>	i do aswell
+Mar 23 19:49:40 <pepsi>	or j00 all can jus ask me
+Mar 23 19:49:50 <pepsi>	id be more then happy to tell anyone =)
+Mar 23 19:49:55 <smat>	lol i was too embarrased to ask you ...
+Mar 23 19:50:06 <h00t`>	I'd hate to get rid of /me Mickey Mouse watch.  =\
+Mar 23 19:50:09 <DDRP>	Well there are people not here now which one wonders about
+Mar 23 19:50:11 <smat>	i called my friend so i wouldnt look st00pid
+Mar 23 19:50:14 <DDRP>	did they get confused?
+Mar 23 19:50:16 <smat>	hehe h00t
+Mar 23 19:50:26 <smat>	yea
+Mar 23 19:50:32 <pepsi>	smatty dont be
+Mar 23 19:50:40 <smat>	in any event may we vote on h00t's proposal?
+Mar 23 19:50:45 <smat>	ty pepsi
+Mar 23 19:50:50 <DDRP>	We did
+Mar 23 19:50:55 <pepsi>	i dont know dave
+Mar 23 19:50:56 <DDRP>	it's been passed hasn't it Mr. Chairman?
+Mar 23 19:51:06 <pepsi>	h00ts prop was passed
+Mar 23 19:51:14 <smat>	okay good
+Mar 23 19:51:30 *	DDRP bookmarks
+Mar 23 19:51:39 *	smat bookmarks also
+Mar 23 19:51:39 <pepsi>	yes its passed dave
+Mar 23 19:51:47 <pepsi>	=)
+Mar 23 19:51:47 <pepsi>	Speech from the Superiour Mystic Controller...
+Mar 23 19:51:50 <h00t`>	<chant>speech....speech....speech</chant>
+Mar 23 19:51:59 <pepsi>	if haesu is ready
+Mar 23 19:52:12 <smat>	he was brb'ing
+Mar 23 19:52:19 <DDRP>	I propose we delay it by 15 minutes precisely
+Mar 23 19:52:23 <DDRP>	time for a cup of tea
+Mar 23 19:52:29 <smat>	due to "some critical thing that just happened"
+Mar 23 19:52:40 <smat>	works for me david, nice idea
+Mar 23 19:53:08 <blahdy-bleh>	i am back
+Mar 23 19:53:16 <smat>	wb blahdy
+Mar 23 19:53:20 <blahdy-bleh>	thank you
+Mar 23 19:53:24 <pepsi>	dave i propose we delay it till the next item after he returns
+Mar 23 19:53:25 <smat>	we're about to take a tea break
+Mar 23 19:53:33 <blahdy-bleh>	okay
+Mar 23 19:53:38 <pepsi>	ready to give your speech haesu?
+Mar 23 19:53:41 <DDRP>	Let's have the tea break anyway
+Mar 23 19:54:01 <smat>	let's break till 15:05
+Mar 23 19:54:05 <DDRP>	back at 8 mins past the hour
+Mar 23 19:54:08 <pepsi>	20 min?
+Mar 23 19:54:15 *	pepsi will go take a quick shower =)
+Mar 23 19:54:19 <DDRP>	ack
+Mar 23 19:54:31 <smat>	ack?
+Mar 23 19:54:36 <blahdy-bleh>	syn
+Mar 23 19:54:39 <DDRP>	OK 15:12
+Mar 23 19:54:42 <DDRP>	and that's final
+Mar 23 19:54:42 <DDRP>	brb
+Mar 23 19:54:44 *	smat looks nervous
+Mar 23 19:54:50 <smat>	okay David, i'm there
+Mar 23 19:54:58 <pepsi>	ok Dave
+Mar 23 19:54:58 <pepsi>	13 min =)
+Mar 23 19:55:00 <smat>	<<<<<< RECESS >>>>>>
+Mar 23 19:55:08 ---	DDRP sets modes [#overchat +m]
+Mar 23 19:57:23 ---	h00t` is now known as h00t
+Mar 23 20:10:31 <DDRP>	=)
+Mar 23 20:10:45 <DDRP>	2 mins 2 mins, put those tea cups away
+Mar 23 20:11:47 ---	pepsi sets modes [#overchat -m]
+Mar 23 20:11:58 <--	SBeast has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
+Mar 23 20:12:03 <blahdy-bleh>	Let the meeting resume.
+Mar 23 20:12:16 <DDRP>	Good luck with your speech
+Mar 23 20:12:22 <pepsi>	time for ya speech Haesu
+Mar 23 20:12:27 <blahdy-bleh>	ok
+Mar 23 20:12:52 <blahdy-bleh>	As many of you know, TowardEX has partnered with Daybologic in order to provide backend/network and connectivty support for OverChat
+Mar 23 20:13:26 <blahdy-bleh>	TowardEX will be making sure following things are in highest state of mind during the Overchat operations:
+Mar 23 20:13:26 <blahdy-bleh>	1) Security of the servers
+Mar 23 20:13:31 <blahdy-bleh>	2) Redundancy
+Mar 23 20:13:31 <blahdy-bleh>	3) Backup
+Mar 23 20:13:57 <blahdy-bleh>	any questions so far?
+Mar 23 20:13:57 <blahdy-bleh>	lol
+Mar 23 20:14:07 <h00t>	;)
+Mar 23 20:14:13 <pepsi>	no sir
+Mar 23 20:14:23 <pepsi>	continue
+Mar 23 20:14:28 <blahdy-bleh>	The security of the servers will be enforced by putting overchat servers on a seperate network when OC rolls out.
+Mar 23 20:14:34 <blahdy-bleh>	The overchat servers will eventually get its own layer3 switch on the network
+Mar 23 20:14:42 <blahdy-bleh>	with access list filters in place
+Mar 23 20:14:47 <blahdy-bleh>	to ensure tigher security.,
+Mar 23 20:15:10 <blahdy-bleh>	In addition, ICMP-port-unreachables and certain icmp+udp packets destined to overchat servers will be filtered out from upstream backbone to ensure security aginst DoS
+Mar 23 20:15:54 <DDRP>	This is good news considering certain elements =/  I name no names
+Mar 23 20:15:55 <pepsi>	good idea against DoS
+Mar 23 20:15:59 <blahdy-bleh>	So that is for security.
+Mar 23 20:16:14 <blahdy-bleh>	In addition,
+Mar 23 20:16:24 <pepsi>	Dave, we all know
+Mar 23 20:16:30 <blahdy-bleh>	the Cisco router has already been configured to drop any ping floods or syn floods that are greator than 8Kbps from single IP.
+Mar 23 20:17:16 <blahdy-bleh>	And there is a simple announcement btw.
+Mar 23 20:17:27 <blahdy-bleh>	Later I do believe we will have more contributors and coding developers for OC
+Mar 23 20:17:32 <blahdy-bleh>	in the near future
+Mar 23 20:17:48 <blahdy-bleh>	i do believe we will eventually maintain a secure/private cvs servers for all the contributors to organize the codes
+Mar 23 20:17:53 <blahdy-bleh>	may be not cvs, but other mechanisms
+Mar 23 20:18:18 <blahdy-bleh>	for such purpose, there is what's called IP-Propagation.net, an international private VPN backbone developped by Towardex and few other partners
+Mar 23 20:18:32 <blahdy-bleh>	its specifically designed for private research such as this OC development.
+Mar 23 20:18:42 <blahdy-bleh>	any transfers over the ip-propagation network remains secure.
+Mar 23 20:18:58 <blahdy-bleh>	so we can certainly make use out of that later if we have a need to bring all developers together into single network.
+Mar 23 20:19:27 <blahdy-bleh>	lol this room has turned quiet :P
+Mar 23 20:19:29 *	DDRP is on that network =)
+Mar 23 20:19:46 <blahdy-bleh>	yes
+Mar 23 20:19:48 <blahdy-bleh>	so far
+Mar 23 20:19:55 *	pepsi is reading
+Mar 23 20:20:00 <blahdy-bleh>	IP-propagation.net network stretches from Texas, US and all the way into UK
+Mar 23 20:20:17 <blahdy-bleh>	the nations that are involved in ip-propagation network are:
+Mar 23 20:20:28 <blahdy-bleh>	err
+Mar 23 20:20:33 <blahdy-bleh>	oh there
+Mar 23 20:20:33 <blahdy-bleh>	lol
+Mar 23 20:20:38 <blahdy-bleh>	US, Canada, UK and FR
+Mar 23 20:21:15 <blahdy-bleh>	so as you can see, there are works being doen to help developers get together and get their research works done.
+Mar 23 20:21:23 <blahdy-bleh>	but the stuff that i wanted to mention today is this:
+Mar 23 20:21:28 <blahdy-bleh>	backup procedures for OC databases.
+Mar 23 20:21:33 <pepsi>	very good work
+Mar 23 20:21:46 <blahdy-bleh>	also, IP-propagation.net is being linked with Internet2 ;)
+Mar 23 20:21:52 <blahdy-bleh>	www.internet2.edu
+Mar 23 20:22:13 <pepsi>	i2 == 1337
+Mar 23 20:23:31 <blahdy-bleh>	now how do we do the backup for OC database is in question.
+Mar 23 20:23:59 <pepsi>	too technical for me =/
+Mar 23 20:24:00 <DDRP>	It would be good if the system emailed it to me daily
+Mar 23 20:24:16 <blahdy-bleh>	we could do that
+Mar 23 20:24:23 <blahdy-bleh>	but in order to make it secure
+Mar 23 20:24:30 <blahdy-bleh>	ddrp must operate a mail server in his network/LAN
+Mar 23 20:24:35 <blahdy-bleh>	and email will traverse over ip-propagation.net
+Mar 23 20:24:46 <blahdy-bleh>	so that it cannot be intercepted in transit.
+Mar 23 20:25:05 <DDRP>	Either that... or gpg could encrypt it to my public key
+Mar 23 20:25:15 <blahdy-bleh>	yea
+Mar 23 20:25:31 <blahdy-bleh>	i think what we can do is
+Mar 23 20:25:39 <blahdy-bleh>	insetad of email
+Mar 23 20:25:45 <blahdy-bleh>	the overchat server will run a cvsup daemon
+Mar 23 20:25:52 <blahdy-bleh>	and then your network will cvsup rsync it down each night or so
+Mar 23 20:25:57 <blahdy-bleh>	or may be once a week
+Mar 23 20:26:10 <blahdy-bleh>	of course cvsup access is restricted only to ddrp's network.
+Mar 23 20:26:38 <DDRP>	Can cvsup deal with binary file differences?
+Mar 23 20:26:53 <blahdy-bleh>	cvsup is simply file transfer mechanism
+Mar 23 20:26:58 <blahdy-bleh>	but yes
+Mar 23 20:27:05 <blahdy-bleh>	basically what happens is
+Mar 23 20:27:10 <blahdy-bleh>	the server tars up the db each night
+Mar 23 20:27:24 <blahdy-bleh>	then ur system running cvsup will find differences between the one server has an dthe one you have
+Mar 23 20:27:28 <blahdy-bleh>	and if difference is found, it will replace+update
+Mar 23 20:27:33 <blahdy-bleh>	if not, it will not
+Mar 23 20:28:05 <DDRP>	OK
+Mar 23 20:28:19 <DDRP>	will it work both ways, so if I modify source your copy of the server will be modifed?
+Mar 23 20:28:27 <blahdy-bleh>	so i do believe cvsup over ipp backbone is the way to go for now.
+Mar 23 20:28:42 <blahdy-bleh>	you must run a cvsup server on your end
+Mar 23 20:28:47 <DDRP>	Oh
+Mar 23 20:28:48 <blahdy-bleh>	i think what we can do is this
+Mar 23 20:28:59 <blahdy-bleh>	the server can run an nfs server over the ipp vpn
+Mar 23 20:29:08 <blahdy-bleh>	and you can nfs mount the overchat directory
+Mar 23 20:29:16 <blahdy-bleh>	and modify the db if you want
+Mar 23 20:29:34 <blahdy-bleh>	of course it will be sort of slow over modem, but once you have cable, it will not be slow.
+Mar 23 20:30:04 <DDRP>	OK but this is complex stuff isn't it?  What are the short term solutions for database backup incase we lose it this week for example?
+Mar 23 20:30:28 <blahdy-bleh>	cvsup is the best/short/simplest backup mechanism
+Mar 23 20:30:32 <blahdy-bleh>	in fact we use it all the time to backup towardex customer files and dns data
+Mar 23 20:30:50 <blahdy-bleh>	b/c cvsup can be done directly from commandline
+Mar 23 20:30:55 <blahdy-bleh>	so backup scripts can work easily
+Mar 23 20:31:06 <DDRP>	OK well I'll tell you what...
+Mar 23 20:31:20 <DDRP>	we could have syncronisation going between silverman and the stable server
+Mar 23 20:31:33 <DDRP>	therefore avoiding the authoritive source on torvalds
+Mar 23 20:31:42 <blahdy-bleh>	yes
+Mar 23 20:31:42 <DDRP>	which might become unstable as it's being changed all the time
+Mar 23 20:31:53 <blahdy-bleh>	well torvalds can run cvsup client
+Mar 23 20:31:58 <blahdy-bleh>	to cvsup down the db file from the official server
+Mar 23 20:32:52 <DDRP>	Anyroad
+Mar 23 20:32:56 <DDRP>	what is next on the agneda?
+Mar 23 20:33:02 <blahdy-bleh>	hehe
+Mar 23 20:33:26 <pepsi>	Does the clearence level need to be so broad (users from 2-255)
+Mar 23 20:33:35 <pepsi>	0-255
+Mar 23 20:34:06 <DDRP>	Side note: If people don't understand what the levels are, telnet to the query server and type cll
+Mar 23 20:35:30 -->	SBeast (~Dagsylad@the.pub.net) has joined #overchat
+Mar 23 20:35:39 <SBeast>	=)
+Mar 23 20:35:55 <pepsi>	cant we change it to be 0-100?
+Mar 23 20:36:10 <pepsi>	or is there a need for it to be 0-255?
+Mar 23 20:36:33 <DDRP>	What's wrong with foresight?  Almost all of the levels aren't used
+Mar 23 20:37:18 <pepsi>	i was only wonderin if there is a specific reason why its so broad?
+Mar 23 20:37:28 <DDRP>	It's the length of a byte
+Mar 23 20:37:29 <pepsi>	seems to me it would be easier if it was on a smaller scale
+Mar 23 20:37:31 <DDRP>	0-255
+Mar 23 20:38:09 <pepsi>	i dont see that the comittee cares about it so i guess it stays at 0-255
+Mar 23 20:38:18 <DDRP>	It also leave gaps between different classes of users
+Mar 23 20:38:28 <blahdy-bleh>	255 seems fine to me.
+Mar 23 20:38:30 <DDRP>	So there is room for expansion between officers and programmers
+Mar 23 20:38:33 <DDRP>	and programmers and g0ds
+Mar 23 20:38:35 <pepsi>	and we have already discussed network back up proceduers?
+Mar 23 20:38:43 <SBeast>	if it works, why fsck with it !?      =P
+Mar 23 20:38:48 <blahdy-bleh>	yes we have.
+Mar 23 20:39:23 <DDRP>	Yeah changing the user levels creates work with no obvious gain
+Mar 23 20:39:29 <pepsi>	is there anything else that the committee feels we need to discuss this week?
+Mar 23 20:39:32 <DDRP>	It's OK if you're coding it maties ;)
+Mar 23 20:40:22 <DDRP>	What's next on the agenda?
+Mar 23 20:40:49 <pepsi>	New matters arising
+Mar 23 20:40:54 <DDRP>	Oh
+Mar 23 20:40:59 <pepsi>	is there anything else that the committee feels we need to discuss this week?
+Mar 23 20:41:11 <DDRP>	Yes
+Mar 23 20:41:17 <DDRP>	What about threading
+Mar 23 20:41:28 <DDRP>	I'm ****** off with the packet munger
+Mar 23 20:41:32 <DDRP>	aka packet compiler
+Mar 23 20:41:33 <pepsi>	then propose it mate
+Mar 23 20:41:38 <smat>	may i just mention something?
+Mar 23 20:41:43 <smat>	after you
+Mar 23 20:41:54 <pepsi>	enlighten us
+Mar 23 20:41:59 <smat>	minor thing
+Mar 23 20:42:04 <pepsi>	smatt mind waiting till dave is done?
+Mar 23 20:42:11 <smat>	absolutely not
+Mar 23 20:42:24 *	smat bows to the supreme commander
+Mar 23 20:42:31 <pepsi>	id like to stay on one subj at a time =)
+Mar 23 20:42:37 <pepsi>	and not have 2 convos goin
+Mar 23 20:42:37 <DDRP>	OK well, I propose that we might want to switch the server into socket blocking mode and enable a thread per user
+Mar 23 20:42:50 <DDRP>	eliminating TX/RX/packet compiler buffering
+Mar 23 20:42:54 <smat>	np whatsoever
+Mar 23 20:42:55 <pepsi>	how does hcc feel about this
+Mar 23 20:43:29 <pepsi>	dave if you feel it neccersary ill 2nd it
+Mar 23 20:43:39 <DDRP>	It would be experimental
+Mar 23 20:43:45 <pepsi>	i dont have any input on the sub
+Mar 23 20:44:10 <h00t>	I don't have any _knowledge_ of the subject.  =\
+Mar 23 20:44:10 <DDRP>	Haesu needs to comment he's the only other person who knows anything about it
+Mar 23 20:45:47 <blahdy-bleh>	ah
+Mar 23 20:46:14 <blahdy-bleh>	where are we again, sorry i temporarily got lost
+Mar 23 20:46:31 <DDRP>	Any other issues - Thread per user/blocking sockets
+Mar 23 20:46:44 <h00t>	<DDRP> OK well, I propose that we might want to switch the server into socket blocking mode and enable a thread per user
+Mar 23 20:47:03 <blahdy-bleh>	to me, i dont really see much issues right now except for that tx/rx packet compiler stuff
+Mar 23 20:47:25 <DDRP>	It's difficult to test that crap
+Mar 23 20:47:27 <DDRP>	unfortunately
+Mar 23 20:47:40 <blahdy-bleh>	yes i do know that.
+Mar 23 20:47:55 <blahdy-bleh>	i could provide you the shell on the server
+Mar 23 20:47:57 <DDRP>	My dad's off down the pub tonight but I'm going to skip that and try to sort this issue once and for all >=o
+Mar 23 20:48:01 <blahdy-bleh>	so that you could debug better that way?
+Mar 23 20:48:10 <DDRP>	That would be great!
+Mar 23 20:48:30 *	h00t goes with John to the pub.
+Mar 23 20:48:36 <blahdy-bleh>	yea that would work
+Mar 23 20:49:08 <DDRP>	Does your setup leave core dumps?
+Mar 23 20:49:52 <blahdy-bleh>	i have no clude.
+Mar 23 20:49:55 <blahdy-bleh>	clue*
+Mar 23 20:49:59 <DDRP>	No matter
+Mar 23 20:50:00 <blahdy-bleh>	sometimes it seems to do that sometimes no
+Mar 23 20:50:04 <blahdy-bleh>	is that part of linux kernel compilation option?
+Mar 23 20:50:08 <DDRP>	I don't know
+Mar 23 20:50:14 <DDRP>	my system wasn't and now it is
+Mar 23 20:50:25 <blahdy-bleh>	well ill try to figure that out on linux kernel compile next time
+Mar 23 20:50:43 <smat>	i'm sorry i got a little distracted, is the meeting still underway?
+Mar 23 20:50:50 <blahdy-bleh>	yes but near closing i believe
+Mar 23 20:50:54 <smat>	okay
+Mar 23 20:51:30 <smat>	i'll just email the group with what i wanted to say, no need to take the committee's time up with it
+Mar 23 20:51:52 <h00t>	=\
+Mar 23 20:51:53 <DDRP>	That would be a violation of the committee
+Mar 23 20:52:02 <pepsi>	smat youcan say it
+Mar 23 20:52:03 <DDRP>	The committee must be given the chance to argue over it
+Mar 23 20:52:07 <blahdy-bleh>	you could say it now :-/
+Mar 23 20:52:31 <smat>	oh it was just something to do with tshirts for those who have been waiting, no biggie
+Mar 23 20:52:35 <pepsi>	only one item left smatty say it plz =D
+Mar 23 20:52:43 <smat>	coz i dont have an ink jet printer i have to rely on someone else
+Mar 23 20:52:48 <smat>	and that's what's hold them up
+Mar 23 20:53:01 <smat>	ty all
+Mar 23 20:53:13 <pepsi>	now was that so hard =)
+Mar 23 20:53:18 <blahdy-bleh>	ah i see.
+Mar 23 20:53:23 *	smat looks sheepish
+Mar 23 20:53:38 <pepsi>	next agenda item....
+Mar 23 20:53:43 <pepsi>	When shall the next meeting be?
+Mar 23 20:53:43 <smat>	blah, you need to email me with your addy too, so i can send you one
+Mar 23 20:53:49 <smat>	pepsi, i like these monthly meetings
+Mar 23 20:53:54 <blahdy-bleh>	yea ill do that soon
+Mar 23 20:53:56 <blahdy-bleh>	thanks
+Mar 23 20:53:57 <DDRP>	OK.  I shall make the log part of the tree and post an address the the list.  I'll post the Superious Mystic Controller's speech to the group seperately as it is most important
+Mar 23 20:54:01 <smat>	yw
+Mar 23 20:54:11 <pepsi>	smat: propose a date
+Mar 23 20:54:17 <pepsi>	if you do not mind
+Mar 23 20:54:22 <blahdy-bleh>	DDRP: it was?
+Mar 23 20:54:22 <blahdy-bleh>	hehe
+Mar 23 20:54:22 *	blahdy-bleh didnt realize
+Mar 23 20:54:26 <smat>	one sec, pepsi, i'd be honoured
+Mar 23 20:54:30 <DDRP>	Of course
+Mar 23 20:54:44 <blahdy-bleh>	kewl
+Mar 23 20:55:43 <smat>	as you're spiritual adviser, i suggest april 20
+Mar 23 20:56:03 <smat>	since it could be cosmically disruptive to have it on the 27th since that's a full moon
+Mar 23 20:56:10 <h00t>	=)
+Mar 23 20:56:15 <DDRP>	lmao
+Mar 23 20:56:18 <smat>	any dissentions?
+Mar 23 20:56:31 <pepsi>	im not a god smatt =)
+Mar 23 20:56:33 <DDRP>	It's OK with me
+Mar 23 20:56:36 <smat>	>=| David
+Mar 23 20:56:38 <pepsi>	but j00 can advise me
+Mar 23 20:56:43 <smat>	ty David
+Mar 23 20:56:43 <smat>	lol
+Mar 23 20:57:01 <smat>	hey, that's why i'm here pepsi, not as a god, but as an intermediatry (sp?)
+Mar 23 20:57:03 <DDRP>	smat is the personal advisor to the g0ds
+Mar 23 20:57:14 <DDRP>	That means blah, tk, DDRP etc
+Mar 23 20:57:15 <smat>	yea
+Mar 23 20:57:19 <h00t>	close enough.
+Mar 23 20:57:19 <smat>	hehe
+Mar 23 20:57:31 <smat>	may we schedule it for around the same time as today?
+Mar 23 20:57:36 <pepsi>	i 2nd it smat
+Mar 23 20:57:36 <smat>	ty peps
+Mar 23 20:57:48 <smat>	and we can rely on someone for a reminder?
+Mar 23 20:57:53 <pepsi>	sure smat
+Mar 23 20:57:53 <pepsi>	fine with me
+Mar 23 20:57:56 <DDRP>	It be pepsi's job
+Mar 23 20:58:01 <smat>	awesome, ty
+Mar 23 20:58:08 <pepsi>	ill send out the email as soon as agenda is prepared
+Mar 23 20:58:13 <blahdy-bleh>	today is good time
+Mar 23 20:58:18 <smat>	great!
+Mar 23 20:58:18 <h00t>	h00t!
+Mar 23 20:58:23 <smat>	may i propose one more last thing?
+Mar 23 20:58:26 <blahdy-bleh>	2pm est always works for me
+Mar 23 20:58:26 <smat>	it's very quick
+Mar 23 20:58:31 <blahdy-bleh>	yes go for it
+Mar 23 20:58:37 <pepsi>	if anyone has an idea or object to be discussed email it to erik@towardex.net
+Mar 23 20:58:42 <smat>	i would like to commend pepsi on his job as chair
+Mar 23 20:58:50 <DDRP>	erik: That address has fscked me over twice
+Mar 23 20:58:51 <h00t>	2nd.
+Mar 23 20:58:56 <DDRP>	I'll stick to your hotmail account
+Mar 23 20:58:56 <h00t>	;)
+Mar 23 20:59:00 <smat>	and for bringing this meeting to order
+Mar 23 20:59:05 <pepsi>	thank you smatty
+Mar 23 20:59:05 <smat>	ty h00t
+Mar 23 20:59:10 <blahdy-bleh>	DDRP: when did you send emails?
+Mar 23 20:59:10 <smat>	ty pepsi
+Mar 23 20:59:15 <pepsi>	=D
+Mar 23 20:59:18 <DDRP>	I can't remember
+Mar 23 20:59:20 <smat>	=D
+Mar 23 20:59:23 <blahdy-bleh>	we've had some mail server troubles lately.
+Mar 23 20:59:23 <DDRP>	I'll send a test now and get back to you
+Mar 23 20:59:38 <smat>	so 4/20/02 2pm est (referring to h00t's clock site)
+Mar 23 20:59:43 <blahdy-bleh>	k
+Mar 23 20:59:48 <pepsi>	yes blah i noticed
+Mar 23 20:59:53 <pepsi>	=/
+Mar 23 21:00:09 <DDRP>	You mean 20/4/2002
+Mar 23 21:00:11 <DDRP>	;)
+Mar 23 21:00:13 <pepsi>	h00t: next meeting is on 4/20
+Mar 23 21:00:13 <pepsi>	heh
+Mar 23 21:00:13 <pepsi>	=D
+Mar 23 21:00:23 *	pepsi wishes ian could make a meeting
+Mar 23 21:00:32 <h00t>	::chuckle::
+Mar 23 21:00:35 <DDRP>	So do I
+Mar 23 21:00:50 <h00t>	3rd.
+Mar 23 21:01:02 <smat>	4th
+Mar 23 21:01:17 <DDRP>	Can we have a fither?
+Mar 23 21:01:35 <h00t>	�.0
+Mar 23 21:01:40 <pepsi>	i porpose meeting be ajourned (sp?)
+Mar 23 21:01:46 <DDRP>	Seconded
+Mar 23 21:01:56 <blahdy-bleh>	Seconded.
+Mar 23 21:02:03 <DDRP>	Set mode +m to get rid of these people?
+Mar 23 21:02:05 <DDRP>	;)
+Mar 23 21:02:06 <blahdy-bleh>	OC2 Meeting closed.
+Mar 23 21:02:09 <pepsi>	g'day all
+Mar 23 21:02:11 *	smat applauds, great meeting, thank you committee members
+Mar 23 21:02:17 <pepsi>	=)
+Mar 23 21:02:17 <blahdy-bleh>	good day all :)
+Mar 23 21:02:22 <h00t>	adjourned, btw.  ;)
+Mar 23 21:02:22 <blahdy-bleh>	it had been great meeting
+Mar 23 21:02:26 ---	DDRP sets modes [#overchat +m]
+Mar 23 21:02:31 <--	smat has quit (BitchX-75p1 -- just do it.)
+Mar 23 21:02:36 <--	blahdy-bleh (dmq@hcmc9e216pc3.towardex.info) has left #overchat
+Mar 23 21:02:36 <--	h00t (~Jean@rdu26-241-023.nc.rr.com) has left #overchat
+Mar 23 21:02:41 ---	pepsi has changed the topic to: OverChat Meeting 3 will be held on 4/20/02 @ 1 pm US central time...
+Mar 23 21:03:01 <--	DDRP has kicked SBeast from #overchat (Meeting closed)
+Mar 23 21:03:08 <--	DDRP has kicked pepsi from #overchat (Meeting closed)
+Mar 23 21:03:16 ---	You have been kicked from #overchat by DDRP (Meeting closed)
+**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Mar 23 21:03:16 2002
+
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