Construction help lines / guides

[Felix Ulber]

Using Mueller and Son, there are cases, where you start construction by e.g. the back mid line, plotting down several measures at different heights. Then start constructing the first piece (back), but use those lines to construct also side and front pieces.

A the moment this means I have to draw abritraty long horizontal lines at these heights. Actually no - I just realized I am talking about separate pattern pieces, so there is actually no possibility at all to re-use some parts of the construction of one piece as a base for the construction of a second.

It would probably need something like guides (like in other graphics applications) to help in this case. Or the ability to use the "Point from x and y" tool among different pattern pieces.

So there is a need for kinds of construction helper means which - this may include several different things I think. So this is rather to be the trigger for a dicussion than a clear and obvious issue.

Input and contribution appreciated!

[Former user]

it may be that having a "guide frame" type thing might help since you need to match up back/front (or in some cases back/side/front) to different points on the body.

a related item is being able to Mirror Copy different pattern pieces (do the entire left side and then copy and flip to make the right side)

[Susan Spencer]

This I think will require some design meetings/discussions to get it right.

[Felix Ulber]

@Robert Yes, that mirroring thing is really related, e.g. thinking of a simple shirt pattern.

The example above is even more complex, its not about any basic symmetry but more complex construction based on several horizontal levels (and even more construction details). I cannot post a full picture from the book due to copyright but I tried to make a simple sketch to show it better.

@tusuzu Yes. This (and other Ideas) now touch fundamental design and architecture questions more and more. Thats not nice nor easy I know... however I hope theres a way to deal with it.

[Roman Telezhynskyi]

Hi Felix,

I have discussed your case with my mom. And she showed me one image. See attached file.

According to this image we don't need any help lines at all. Instead of creating three pattern pieces you should create only one, use different line types to highlighting pieces and all will be fine. The rule is very simple if you need such help lines this mean you work with one pattern piece that contains several pieces, even they are separated from each other.

[Former user]

I agree that guide lines would be very useful! I'm using a construction system similar to Mueller and Son from an old tailoring book and to finish the pattern I need to draw some lines to get the points I need that create unnecessary points. It can be done, but its more difficult and not very logical to do.

[Roman Telezhynskyi]

I don't say you don't need guide lines, i am saying that you should make pieces in the same pattern piece. And only then you can create such lines.

[David Arnold]

We just put help lines white/transparent, so they don't bother visually but are still available for constructing, all in one patter piece for having them directly available, we then create different pieces in the detail mode.

The paradigm "1 Workpiece = 1 Pattern Piece" is therefore not true anymore. Best & hope it helps.

[Roman Telezhynskyi]

Reopen if you feel i am wrong.

[Susan Spencer]

Agreed, close this issue.

Re-engineering the process to allow information sharing between pattern pieces requires quite a lot of work and duplicates existing capability to construct everything in one Draw pattern piece.

Creating everything in the same Draw pattern piece stays true to the books' patternmaking systems.

What might help with the complexity of working in one large Draw pattern piece is the ability to scale point label size. Point label size adjustment is suggested in issue [#244] Line and point thickness and label size.

[Holger Pandel]

see my addition here: #484

[Karla Kunze]

I just tried to construct an basic Pattern following the tutorials on Leenas.com/English/draw_bodice and wiki.valentinaproject.org/wiki/Bodice_Block,_Leena’s_Patternmaker

This is IMHO the best and only tutorial that shows you how to effectively use Tape and Valentina to successfully draft a Pattern.

I consider myself an avid user of Inkscape, GIMP, Blender and other Design software. Nevertheless several hours spent just to construct the Bodice frame as shown in Leenas Draft frame is too much time for the setup.

What do you think of being able to specify a set of horizontal guides/grid lines (height or Y information) from the current Tape measurements and a set of vertical guide/grid lines (width and circ or X information) for each pattern piece (ie Pieces could be considered like a drafts in draw mode). For each Piece/Draft you can specify the X and Y guide lines from the Tape measurements plus the two baselines (eg. waist and center body front/back or even side) for all guide lines. This allows you to easily get the draft frame and directly start creating the actual pattern piece, ie. Step/Picture 2 in Leenas tutorial. You only need to construct the more complex helper points starting with points 19..50 in that case.

@Roman Telezhynskyi I really appreciate your effort and work put into Valentina, this would lower the bar for novice users considerably.

I could even imagine some scaled version of the measuring diagrams visible in Tape to be shown in the background next to those guide lines (depending on the piece setting defining whether it is a front, back, side or arm/leg piece)

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[Roman Telezhynskyi]

Hi, I am not sure I completely follow your idea. Links you provided no longer exist. I need more details.

[Roman Telezhynskyi]

@Karla Kunze what you have proposed is against “Valentina way”. Instead of any sort of wizard, you must create such a construction frame ones and use it as a template for all your patterns. Yes, it will take time to create it, but then you have full control over how it works. Plus, we do not force our users to any system. Valentina follows your order instead of forcing you to a certain way of creating patterns. There is not just one unique to all way of defining such a frame.

[Karla Kunze]

Yes you are right that with a good framework I can draft all kind of patterns. And once you have created one you can save and reuse it.

I just thought about the way you create pieces based on such a frame, you would align all points on such a grid and you would expect the distances between them to be the difference between your individual measurement scales (y-axis probably height measurements, x-axis all kind of width or circumferences). Given one piece in such a draft mode you would typically start with one base, front-mid of the waist. Then you would need a set of guide lines left and right of the navel and either above the waist for a shirt or below the waist for some trousers.

Ie with some simple settings (base origin: waist line and mid front, plus the selected measurements from the tape library for all bodice heights and widths) you would immediately have the raw frame allowing you to directly select points 1-19. So you can use the existing quick draw mode like point-to-point to just pick the necessary points in snap mode for your actual pattern piece. No need to construct most parts of the frame. Also the difference between let us say waist-height and bust-height is directly clear from the measurements and that they are both on the height scale. Whereas the width and circumferences are on the other scale perpendicular to it. You could even define a special subsystem for one pattern piece where the two axes are not perpendicular but in a certain angle or polar coordinates, eg for a sleeve on an arm.

I think that is what the OP Felix Ulber intended with this feature request too.

So to set up the two scales you only need to select the origin on the scale and the necessary individual measurements to be on the scale for that piece. While the height is always from bottom to top, the width/circumference scale would be centered from origin to left and right. So we might need to add some information to the measurements to allow them all on one scale. Currently they are all grouped in A-Q as far as I recall. But maybe some more metadata like from ground, height, centered, width, circumference, etc. or this is a leg/arm length may be needed to get the differences between the measurements on the same scale right.

The practical thing is that you already have individual origins for each piece on the common draw space in Valentina right now, that allows you to place or align multiple pieces and therefor also such grid systems depending on their purpose and relation next to each other, eg one for back bodice, then right side and left side placed next to it and even front pieces or arms/legs with their own local measurement guide lines.

Just imagine you can select a set of views of a “paperdoll” (upper / lower front/back, left/right side, arm/leg) with current measurements from your individual / multisize Tape measurements and place them in your drawing space. Now you only need to connect the dots and have your basic pattern ready. That is where you can become creative and construct more complex patterns with drafts and stunning cuts. I believe you already have some macro CAD functions for drafts in Valentina.

@Roman Telezhynskyi here are the correct links, sorry for the typos:

http://leenas.com/English/draw_bodice.html

https://wiki.valentinaproject.org/wiki/Bodice_Block,_Leena's_Patternmaker

BTW who is Valentina, it is a befitting name for such a beautiful piece of Software.

[Roman Telezhynskyi]

BTW who is Valentina, it is a befitting name for such a beautiful piece of Software.

My mom’s name.

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[Roman Telezhynskyi]

As to your proposal, I believe it goes beyond the scope. If Valentina is a programming language, then what you want must be a part of some sort of library. One time made template will do a job.

[Karla Kunze]

Find attached a mockup created using some pictures available in the Tape library and a screenshot of the Valentina draw mode interface.

It is in Draw Mode were a configurable Grid of Guide Lines might be beneficial to quickly draft a new pattern piece.

Please especially note the Origin mark (green arrows) which sets the origin for the two scales (height and widths/circumferences).

For each Pattern piece you can select a individual set of Guide lines (horizontal and vertical) relative to the actual piece origin from your Tape library. As you layout your pieces with their origins you can arrange multiple sets of Guide lines next to each other.

The background image (height measurements from Tape) is purely illustrational and not required for the actual feature request, though it could be added via a scalable vector version centered at the origin of each pattern piece at a later stage. Besides switching the view direction (front/back, left/right side, arm/leg) for each piece you might also show/hide it with a simple button.

Thanks for considering this feature for Valentina.

[Karla Kunze]

cut and updated the mockup

[Karla Kunze]

Guide Lines have been requested without illustration.

[Roman Telezhynskyi]

There will be no automated Grid of Guide Lines. It’s too much custom feature. But what I like is a guide line tool. An infinite line through point with angle.

[Karla Kunze]

Guide line tool sounds very good to me. Thanks in advance Roman!

As mentioned above and implemented in Scribus (Qt DTP Application) it would be easier for users, if they can specify a whole list of guide lines with the angle (horizontal/vertical) and distance (values / measurements / formula) from the origin of your pattern piece, though you already said that’s too much work :)

[Karla Kunze]

I really like your idea of implementing a Guide line tool in draw mode which generates an infinite line. That is actually more than just a guide line from origin, I could use any point as origin of the guide line.

Just took a quick peak at your code and wondered, how that would be implemented. As far as I could guess the basic structure is VAbstractPoint or VSimplePoint, so creating an infinite line might pose difficult, but I do not know C++ and QtGraphics well enough to be of any help drafting such a guide line tool.

That is why I suggested to create a pattern of intersecting guide lines based on origin, so you need to calculate a list of intersection points which may be shown together / without the (in)finite guide lines. So in a way a linear “Point intersection curves” or “Point of intersection arcs”, that is a “Points of intersection of guide lines”.

I would probably derive it from the VToolDoublePoint and make it a VToolIntersectingGuidePoint(s). So instead of having only two points it would need to have a list of horizontal and vertical distances from the origin point and an optional angle/scale (your second point, default 90° and 1). That would allow to calculate the list of intersection points.

Does that make sense to you, how would you approach it ?

[Roman Telezhynskyi]

Creating an infinite line is not a problem. You can find an example of such a line when you highlight a tool that has an axis.

Does that make sense to you, how would you approach it ?

As with any other tool we have. But your understanding is incorrect. If you want to find how it works you must find a commit that shows process of adding a tool.

[Karla Kunze]

I see you are migrating to gitlab lately. So the Bitbucket might not be useful to fork the code from. I do not know if the gitlab repo will also contain all the Bitbucket commits.

Do you have any gitlab commit in mind which could work as a good starting point ?

[Roman Telezhynskyi]

I do not know if the gitlab repo will also contain all the Bitbucket commits.

It does. Here a few examples for you: 7eaadf17, 4635593b, d1b2613a. And many more just search for commit with text new tool.

I must admit you need to touch several files to be able to bring new tool. But it is not hard if you know what you are doing. Right now I don’t have time to implement this tool, but I find the idea interesting. So, if you want to try I can find time to help you understand how to develop it.

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[Karla Kunze]

I would need to bump up the xsd schema description version, add my tool to the dialog box, dialog history and main windows menu, design some resources for icons, add the dialogs for my guide tool and a visualization. Did I miss any important steps ?

But I guess I need to get a full-fledged Qt Dev environment in place first.

What are you using / recommend as IDE, I am running Linux Mint, i.e. Debian based distro ?

[Roman Telezhynskyi]

How about creating a wiki page here? And place all your assumptions. Then I can review them.

What are you using / recommend as IDE, I am running Linux Mint, i.e. Debian based distro ?

Qt Creator as an IDE.

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[Karla Kunze]

I think I have not got the right workflow in Gitlab yet. I was only able to fork the project (now I need to maintain my own project yick), there was no option to edit the Wiki pages you created.

[Roman Telezhynskyi]

Workflow is the same as everywhere. You must fork and then submit a pull request. Sorry, yes, you must be a part of repo to be able to edit the Wiki pages.

[Karla Kunze]

qtcreator installed with no issues.

sudo apt install qtcreator

I created a new folder valentina-dev in my home.

mkdir valentina-dev
cd valentina-dev

Now I need to get a copy of the develop tree.

git clone [e-mail]:smart-pattern/valentina.git

Will see later how to import the project into qtcreator.

[Karla Kunze]

is mercurial still a dependency as you are moving away from Bitbucket ?

[Roman Telezhynskyi]

No.

This repo is using Git. I converted repo to git and left it here to not loose Google traffic. But development will continue on GitLab.

[Karla Kunze]

Import of project in qtcreator via open project worked.

qtcreator Valentina.pro

I had to add the GNU C++ compiler, libqt5xmlpatterns and libqt5svg development packages

sudo apt install g++ libqt5xmlpatterns5-dev libqt5svg5-dev

[Karla Kunze]

mkdir build
cd build
qmake ../Valentina.pro -r CONFIG+=noDebugSymbols CONFIG+=no_ccache
make

worked

Though the qtcreator failed with

21:44:37: Could not determine which "make" command to run. Check the "make" step in the build configuration.

Error while building/deploying project Valentina (kit: Desktop)

When executing step "qmake"

[Karla Kunze]

Found it under Projects > Build Steps > make /usr/bin/make

Manage Kits… > Kits > Manual > Desktop > Compiler: C++ > GCC (C++, x86 64 bit in /usr/bin) * first one is default configured in qmake*

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[Karla Kunze]

Installed Compiler Cache for speed up and qmuparser requirements

sudo apt install ccache

cd src/app/valentina/bin
./valentina

Valentina 0.7.0.740a
Build revision: Git:5b6e2c16d
Built on Sun Feb 2 2020 at 21:52:20

[Roman Telezhynskyi]

Do you use a messanger? We can talk there.