SegaScope 3D emulation

[Former user]

Original issue 258 created by [e-mail] on 2012-07-19T20:30:00.000Z:

One thing that bugs me to no end in most Master System emulators, instead of emulating 3D, halves the framerate of any game that used the SegaScope 3D glasses.

I have a pair of red/cyan anaglyph glasses and if course there are also people who have 3DTVs that could allow theoretically allow true emulation of the SS3D glasses by up-converting the stereo 60hz video to 120hz. (Assuming some sets are capable of this.)

In any case, I would like to see Genesis Plus GX offer ways of emulating the SS3D by either composing the images in real time to anaglyph (like Dega does, only with red/blue which doesn't work well with my glasses and also isn't color optimized) or just keep showing the full 60hz video instead of halving it so that the user can make their own hardware-based solution (somewhat like what Meka does, but using the COM ports to connect real SS3D glasses. But that won't work on today's PCs since most if any don't feature COM ports anymore.)

I'm interested in classic 3D in games, and the SMS was one of the first consoles to try the active-shutter 3D with the Famicom being the other, but it wasn't released outside Japan, leaving only the SMS to give us a sample of what true color-lossless 3D was like 2 decades before we'd see the tech get refined! And even if I must resort to anaglyph glasses instead of LCD ones, still, it's better than not having 3D at all.

[Former user]

Comment # 1 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2012-07-20T11:13:07.000Z:

Have you actually played 3D games in dega with anaglyph glasses ? Does anybody used it beside for one shot curiosity ? I would really be curious to know. Because as far as i tried, it does not looks good, simply because 3d sms games are not much suited for this technique.

And that's why it's actually better to display only one of the two frames rather than trying to poorly emulate something in a way it was not designed. Maybe that "bugs" you but sometime you have to accept reality: there is no way the wii can display 3d graphics (120 hz ? Lol) and there is no way to connect SMS glasses to the wii (or even on a modern PC as you noticed it), and even when it is, i really doubt there have been much people building the adaptor beside Omar himself. That's why it would be stupid and a loss of time to render the 60hz video frames untouched, unless i would like to deal with bugs report saying xxx game is.displayed incorrectly, etc...

That's said, it seems there is a technic that could be used on 3d TV to render a 3d image using two 2d images but considering i don't have a 3d TV and have no plan to purchase one, there is very little chance this is gonna happen. I reopened issue207 for future discussions on the subject.

[Former user]

Comment # 2 originally posted by [e-mail] on 2012-07-21T03:08:12.000Z:

I have used Dega before and, as I mentioned, it uses a red/blue filter that A) eliminates the color and B) Isn't as common red/cyan classes which I use. Sometimes, I can see at least a hint of what the game was meant to look like (without the proper colors of course.) and is the main reason I'd like to see these games played in a way that's closer to what's intended.

"...simply because 3d sms games are not much suited for this technique." That reminds me of the 2 Famicom 3D games that made it to the US; The 3D Battles of World Runner and Rad Racer. Both made an attempt (and a bad one IMO) to keep the 3D effect by, instead of making a US version of the Famicom 3D System, adding extra code to the game that colorized the graphics for the red/blue glasses they packaged the games with... It didn't work well.

With that in mind, have you ever watched 3D videos on YouTube? There's several options for using anaglyph classes including 3 lens colors (R/C, G/M, B/Y) and frame composition methods (Full color, which causes a lot of bleeding. Optimized using the Dubois method. And the aforementioned greyscale.) In all cases, the original video was recorded in full color, like modern-day 3D videos are, but still allow those of us who don't have digital 3D equipment to view them with, and in my experience has allowed me to watch the videos with my flimsy cardboard glasses and still enjoy them.

As for whether or not the Wii, which is incapable of displaying anything higher than 480p at 60hz, I did stumble on a YouTube video a few months ago that claims to be F-Zero GX being rendered in stereo 3D on actual Wii hardware. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C\_DNgv5aYRg Unfortunatly, like you, I do not own a 3DTV, nor do I own a copy of F-Zero GX, so I cannot try this out myself, but the idea is what made me think the same could be possible for SMS 3D, so at the very least it seems plausible.

[Former user]

Comment # 3 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2012-07-21T08:53:18.000Z:

There does not seem to be any documentation about how this was exactly made (which kinda does not help implementing the hack in other games or in emulators) but it also seems pretty obvious it uses the technique I mentionned previously, i.e splitting 2d image in 2 part so that 3d tv supporting it can recreate a 3d image (i guess that is what stereo 3d means).

Still, hacking a 2d game to be displayed in 3d is different from emulating a game that required a specific 3d technology into "modern" 3d. The reason why you didn't see much, if any, emulator seriously attempting this is probably that it would not give much result or really reproduce the original feeling, not that emulator authors are against it...

[Former user]

Comment # 4 originally posted by [e-mail] on 2012-07-22T03:40:14.000Z:

Yeah, that fact kinda disappointed me. It'd be nice to imagine being able to play any Wii game in 3D, but that's a different story.

Well, at least I know a little more as to why no one has attempted this before. I still hope someone can find a good solution to emulate SMS 3D some day rather than working around to down-convert it to 2D. Until then, I have plenty other SMS games to play and in ways I can't do as well on PC (i.e. Light Phaser, which is better to do with the Wii Remote anyway instead of a mouse. And the Sports Pad and Handle Controller. (Sure, Meka supports those controllers, but I've always had issues with the emulator randomly crashing no mater which version I used or which PC I ran it on...))

[Former user]

Comment # 7 originally posted by AndrewBeer56 on 2014-03-13T15:04:24.000Z:

Just a quick point, but most 3d TVs with convert a side by side set of images (i.e. left and right eye) into a 3d image. stretch the frames a bit, and put each eye side by side and it should work fine. Works quite well with the VirtualBoy emulators that will kick out the frames in a side by side format.

[Former user]

Comment # 8 originally posted by diogo.nullmoon on 2014-08-01T17:24:57.000Z:

I've been setting my emulators to use with my 3D TV, I got fantastic results, including master system, I play very Zaxxon 3D, but there is a deley when I died and exchanging screen, 3D and hand exchange. while he is at 60.0 fps works, but for a while it goes to 59.9, when there is an exchange, my 3D is passive and I use 3D to 2D