32X support

[Former user]

Original issue 65 created by csatech31 on 2010-01-26T17:23:09.000Z:

Is it possible to support 32X games.

[Former user]

Comment # 1 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2010-01-26T18:03:19.000Z:

32x hardware would need to be emulated first, which is not an easy task considering everything would need to be done from scratch or quite.

Also, it's very unlikely the Wii processor is fast enough to run Genesis + 32x add-on at full speed. The two SH2 processors that need to be emulated are probably overkill which mean the code would also need to be VERY optimized.

However, I leave this feature open as this project can easily be ported to other platforms as well (including PC) and adding 32x emulation to this project is a nice challenge. Don't expect anything to happen until a very long time though, in short words, it's very unlikely you will ever play 32x games on your Wii.

[Former user]

Comment # 2 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2010-01-27T07:26:06.000Z:

[Former user]

Comment # 3 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2010-05-13T14:29:39.000Z:

[Former user]

Comment # 4 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2010-05-25T06:51:16.000Z:

[Former user]

Comment # 5 originally posted by jlenoconel on 2010-05-30T18:34:31.000Z:

How comes the wii can handle n64 and sort of handle ps1 and Saturn but not 32x. Very strange.

[Former user]

Comment # 6 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2010-05-30T18:52:38.000Z:

It's not strange, it's just that you are not understanding how emulators work.

As I said, the code would need to be heavily \*optimized\* to run both SH2 + other 32x components + Genesis hardware at decent speed. N64/PSX emulators have dedicated CPU cores that use advanced techniques like dynamic recompilation, without that they won't be able to run games at decent speed. I don't say it's not possible to do that for 32x emulation, just that it's a lot of work.

As far as I know, Saturn emulation on Wii is in a very preliminar state, you should maybe try the Yabause port first and see how "fast" it runs without any optimization.

[Former user]

Comment # 7 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2010-05-30T18:59:47.000Z:

On a last note, contrary to Saturn (Yabause), PS1 (PCSX) or N64 (Mupen64), there is actually no existing open-source AND portable 32x emulator, which means that I would need to write everything (or quite) from scratch.

Don't forget that all these emulators you like on your Wii are just "ports", they only exist because someone once did 90% of the work by writing a PC emulator and sharing his code.

[Former user]

Comment # 8 originally posted by thiagoalvesdealmeida on 2010-05-31T17:04:13.000Z:

Xbox1 and Wii both share a very similar CPU clock speed, and Xbox1 (which use gens) is capable of run 32x at fullspeed, but I think it's harder to port these PC emulators to the PowerPC architecture.

Unlike SegaCD, 32x is not worth the trouble, IMO.

[Former user]

Comment # 9 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2010-05-31T18:38:56.000Z:

Gens is originally written in x86 assembly which xbox can execute & run just like any similary powered PC so this was not so much a challenge porting it to xbox... Porting it to Wii however would be pretty much like rewriting it completely.

[Former user]

Comment # 10 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2012-01-17T21:42:00.000Z:

[Former user]

Comment # 11 originally posted by cheatfreak47 on 2012-04-14T08:07:18.000Z:

hey, if this ever gets implemented, the emulator would be an 8/16/32 bit emulator :) i hope ill see the day when i can play truxton, doom 32x or Knuckles chaotix on my Wii.

[Former user]

Comment # 12 originally posted by cheatfreak47 on 2012-05-06T23:22:28.000Z:

Your probably right, now that i think about it. 32x will be really hard :/ its probably why SEGA never included Knuckles Chaotix (which it was definitely intended to be included as evidenced by museum page 4) in Sonic Gems Collection.

[Former user]

Comment # 13 originally posted by cheatfreak47 on 2012-06-11T05:32:58.000Z:

i remain optimistic now that ive seen what you have acomplished with Sega/Mega CD emulation. Even if the Wii cant run it at full speed, i dont think it should be abandoned completely. I really hope to see this in the future. someday....

[Former user]

Comment # 14 originally posted by cluster.phucking on 2012-06-28T22:13:09.000Z:

It'd be useful for anyone wanting to port Genesis Plus GX to the PC.

[Former user]

Comment # 15 originally posted by diegojuradon on 2012-09-03T12:54:23.000Z:

It would be great to have 32x support. Since 32x titles may not ever see the light again, this would be a great decision.

I don't care if I don't get to run the games to their full potential either.

[Former user]

Comment # 16 originally posted by [e-mail] on 2013-01-09T22:43:20.000Z:

just curious, with wiiu on market is 32x more doable for genplus-gx or wiiu is anther world ? I think that you can use genplus-gx now on wiiu using wii mode.

[Former user]

Comment # 17 originally posted by cheatfreak47 on 2013-01-10T03:22:19.000Z:

If the Wii-Mode could take advantage of the Wii U's power, that is cirtianly possible. Unfortunately, it can't. For All intensive purposes, The vWii is a Wii with some slightly different IOS structure-- at least on the software side of things.

I still want to see this done someday though. But honestly, at this point, i'm just greatful for the Mega CD support.

[Former user]

Comment # 18 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2013-01-10T09:57:13.000Z:

Even if WiiU homebrew is possible someday (which would probably require a new devkit and support libraries, which is not as "simple" as the move from gc to wii homebrew), i don't have a WiiU and do not plan to get one so it doesn't really change anything.

Also, target performance is not really the main factor, this emulator is portable and 32x could benefits to other platform including PC as well. Writing a 32x emulator requires lot of work and i simply do not have the time and motivation to do it.

[Former user]

Comment # 19 originally posted by [e-mail] on 2013-01-11T20:29:25.000Z:

I hope if I buy a WiiU I can play genesis-gx with vWII. When I've red that homebrew can be installed on wiiU and I thought that all Wii emulators can be played, but both told me that WiiU it's a diferent world.
Maybe someone port genesis-gx to WiiU and write a 32x emulator or mix with MESS/MAME one when the team writes it.
I hope with WiiU horsepower someone write a MAME port capable to play more games too.

[Former user]

Comment # 24 originally posted by albertotomillo on 2013-06-07T09:03:15.000Z:

Hi eke-eke, I know the work involved writing or porting, but I found the open source of Gens 2.14 and SH-2 Core, it includes the source code for windows, linux and commons plataforms.

The source code of 32x is included, maybe do you can take a look to the source code?, the URL is:

http://www.gens.me/downloads.shtml

Sorry by my bad english, I´m spanish.

[Former user]

Comment # 25 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2013-06-07T09:18:26.000Z:

Gens SH2 core is written in x86 assembly, they are not portable
SH2 core in C exist anyway, for example in MAME/MESS

But really, again, i do not need code or ideas or directions on how to add 32x support, this is something i will MAYBE add SOMEDAY when i will have the MOTIVATION to do it but like what i have done for Mega CD support, it's something i want to write from scratch, for me learning new stuff, not basically reusing existing code.

So, as much as i appreciate your interest for this emulator and your efforts in trying to help, it won't magically make it happen faster.

[Former user]

Comment # 26 originally posted by albertotomillo on 2013-06-07T10:28:47.000Z:

Thanks for your reply eke-eke, I know your motivations and I understand you, I realy appreciate all your work in Wii scene, and I don´t ask you anything that you don´t want to do, was in case you were interested in it, nothing more, and I hope that someday, only if you want, you implement the 32X support in your excellent emulator.

32x is the only platform to implement in Wii to be the perfect platform for retro emulation, but is your decission and your hard work, thanks for your excellent emu, I´m very happy with it.

[Former user]

Comment # 35 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2014-07-08T06:38:20.000Z:

issue #386 has been merged into this issue.

[Former user]

Comment # 36 originally posted by punkydudester on 2014-07-08T20:10:58.000Z:

I just thought I would add this in to get people to look at a different path. Retroarch seems to have emulation for the 32x. It's listed on their site. Instead of pushing this emulator to have it, why not use an emulator that does. I love the Genplusgx, but have one emulator do everything is just too much. I play my favorite Wii emulators and use Retroarch for everything I don't already have. Retroarch is a compilation of core emulators. 3/4 down the list is Picodrive and it says it has 32x. I haven't tested it yet but I have used Retroarch for some games and plan to try out this one in particular. Check it out: http://www.libretro.com/index.php/ecosystem/

[Former user]

Comment # 37 originally posted by cheatfreak47 on 2014-07-08T22:24:19.000Z:

@ punkydud That'd be great if the core used for Genesis Emulation in RetroArch Wii wasn't GenPlusGX. I've tried both the Wii and PC versions of retroarch, and neither seem to allow 32x emulation.

I'll stick to kega on PC for my 32x needs.

[Former user]

Comment # 38 originally posted by punkydudester on 2014-07-08T22:33:30.000Z:

If you look on the link, 25th row down on the list, it says picodrive which is another emulator besides genplusgx which is 7th on the list that is supported. Picodrive specifically says 32x emulation.

[Former user]

Comment # 39 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2014-07-09T15:41:21.000Z:

That link is not completely accurate though, Picodrive's libretro port does not compile on Wii and is therefore not included with Retroarch Wii version.

The main reason is that Picodrive is mainly optimized for ARM systems and is hardcoded for little-endian CPUs, while the Wii uses a big endian Power PC CPU.

Anyway, even if you manage to fix endianness issues in Picodrive's sourcecode and get it running on Wii, you will still have to deal with unoptimized 32X emulation code and I would be very surprised if you could get any decent emulation speed.

Really (and once again), finding an open-source 32x emulator is not the issue here: in order to be able to emulate 32X on Wii at playable speed, man will need to write brand new code optimized for Power PC and probably do the same for the slowest parts in existing Genesis emulation code (68000, Z80, VDP, FM) like it is done in Picodrive for ARM or in Gens/Kega for x86.

This is not something I want to do myself because 1) I do not have the skills to write efficient Power PC assembly or dynamic recompilers and 2) this would make this emulator not portable anymore

A portable 32x core is something I still want to add someday in Genesis Plus GX (I started to write my own SH2 core some time ago but it's still very early work in progress), however I can tell you this is never going to run decently on systems that are relatively as weak as the Wii.

[Former user]

Comment # 40 originally posted by cheatfreak47 on 2014-07-09T20:46:52.000Z:

Sorry for the offtopic nature of this post, but anyway--

I want to see a port of GenPlusGX on PC, GUI included.

GenPlusGX has one of the most polished GUIs for an emulator out there as of now. I'd love to see all kinds of emulators, even on PC have something like this.

Are there any plans for anything like that Ekeeke?

[Former user]

Comment # 41 originally posted by punkydudester on 2014-07-10T01:38:33.000Z:

That is such a bummer that Retroarch hasn't ported the Picodrive to the Wii yet. I thought that was the whole point of Retroarch was to has all of these different core options. Well there are many PSX games and N64 games that work well on the Wiisx & Wii64. I believe that the sega 32x will run just fine. It's just a matter of doing a separate one like the Yabause/Saturn emulator. It will just have to be its own I guess. I am quite pleased with Genplus GX. The only confusing thing for some people is once you show the path for each system to the roms, you have to hit the home button to go back to a different system even though at the bottom it says use "B". I find myself re-setting the paths for a lot of friends. I wish the "B" button didn't undo the path.

[Former user]

Comment # 42 originally posted by punkydudester on 2014-07-10T01:58:05.000Z:

In comment 7 - I know ekeeke31 didn't want to do an emulator for the Sega32x because there wasn't one made for even the PC. I found out that this Picodrive is the one people are using for the PC. I found Pico on theoldcomputer dot com. I love that site. I get a lot of my stuff from there and they have taken all of their roms directly from the cartridge, disc or hardware themselves. I believe they have everything and it is well ran and a well loved site. They have Pico in there for Linux, Windows and MAC. I don't know how long its been around.

[Former user]

Comment # 43 originally posted by cheatfreak47 on 2014-07-10T02:05:33.000Z:

There aren't any that are easily portable to the Wii due to the wii's limited hardware capability and architectural limitations.

There are several PC emulators capable of emulating 32x flawlessly. Kega Fusion and GENs being some notable examples.

It would be nice to have GenPlusGX ported to PC as I mentioned above.

[Former user]

Comment # 45 originally posted by ekeeke31 on 2014-07-10T07:12:50.000Z:

@ punkydudester: that comment was about portable 32x emulators and it was made before picodrive added 32x support. Stil, my main point remains: what you do not understand is that 32x emulation on Wii would require heavily optimized code for PowerPC, existing genesis/32x emulators portable code is not fast enough for Wii limited CPU, so simply porting picodrive to the Wii wouldn't be sufficient enough and a lot of things would need to be rewritten. That is what Wii64 and WiiSX did, they rewrote specific code to be optimized for the Wii hardware to be able to run games at a decent speed. And like i said, that is not something I am capable or willing to do. Hope that clear things up, people seem to have trouble understanding this.

@ cheatfreak47: thanks but PC programming always appear to me as a nightmare with having to deal with drivers issues, APIs, OS, etc... I also have no interest playing emulators on my laptop, although i agree this would be great to see someone porting the Wii GUI to Windows.

[133794m3r]

Comment # 46 originally posted by 133794m3r on 2014-11-19T18:26:08.000Z:

The one thing that I want to say about picodrive is that I have used it on a mips cpu based device, yes it does have 1ghz cpu, but it's obviously not using the dynarec as far as I know. It's just a plain-old compile of the system. The sega 32x games work perfectly AOK to me the game console is running at 320x240 so that could definitely make a difference but it's not really optimized as far as I know.

It was on the gcwzero with a simple compile of it for mips.

http://www.gcw-zero.com/

that's the site for it, I was myself running it just as a plain-old thing and it seemed to run perfectly AOK to me, admittedly I don't know how much optimization that the compiler does on the wii for you guys. Also the saturn is slow-as-balls on most all platforms that don't support a dynarec, the mips jit is still slow on the psp. And it does have the same cpus although at a slightly higher clock speed, but the saturn also has a clusterfuck of other cpus all running in it so I imagine it's insanely hard to keep up with timing of the thing. I know that picodrive was heavily optimized for arm and thus is able to run on a potato of a rpi but I just thought that I'd add my own two cents, but yes the wii needs more horsepower. If the wii u was hacked/unlocked in vWii for all 3 cores or at least one at full speed I'm sure that it'd be enough for the system but I can understand why it's not high on your priority list.

[133794m3r]

Comment # 47 originally posted by 133794m3r on 2014-11-19T18:56:27.000Z:

I forgot to say that I know that the saturn is probably the hardest system to emulate right now due to all of the timing issues with the thing, and whilst 32x and everything else would be nice I can see why it's not yet been done.

[Matt "cheatfreak47" Cabanaw]

First comment on BitBucket since the big switch! Hey EkeEke, yep I still keep tabs on these projects. Though now I'm more interested in seeing this implmented solely for the potential uses in libretro for 32x emulation.

I'm aware the picodrive core does 32x, but truthfully, GenPlusGX simply runs better then Picodrive does- which would lead me to believe if you did begin to work on 32x emulation- with the same care and attention you put into the Mega CD emulation, it would also run better- of course.

In any case- I hope you'll consider working on this still... someday.

[William Jones]

Just saw this thread and wanted to comment. With the recent implementation of Mednafen Saturn, all Sega consoles (besides Dreamcast) are very playable on Libretro. It's great!

I'd love to have 32X support with Genesis Plus GX. It's the best Sega emulator ever and I can't help but feel that the only thing that's missing with this emulator is the 32X support. Although Pico Drive supports 32X, many games don't run well and knowing the talent that this dev team has, I can see this being the premiere 32X emulator, if you guys are willing to work on it.

Please give us 32X support. It would be amazing!

[Antonio K.Sobrinho]

It would be a perfect idea of 32x support in genplus gx, then we would have 32x in nintendo wii.