extradoc / minute / pypy-sync-2006-05-11.txt

holger krekel f78aae0 

pypy-sync 11th May 2006, 05:00 PM - 05:25 (UTC+2)

attendants: michael, anto, samuele, christian, richard, 
            eric, arre, armin, holger (mods and minutes) 

* activity reports: everybody posted, see log below. 

* thread cloning approach 

  As discussed earlier it is urgent to have a working 
  thread cloning approach.  Armin posted his suggestion 
  to pypy-dev which builds on the Leysin and other 
  previous works.  He thinks it will take at least 
  2 weeks solid work and that it involves experimentation 
  at some levels so it's hard to predict things exactly. 
  Christian agrees to this approach.  Armin will start on this
  and he will also try to get early feedback from Aurelien and Nicolas. 
  Implementation wise Michael and a bit of Holger will try
  to help. 

  Moreover Christian is to describe and finalise a different
  approach for the larger topic of "thread pickling" at the
  early June sprint.  Holger reminds that EU-wise we promised
  the whole of Work Package 7 to be complete and having a
  report in June and that we should get clarity about 
  according plans. 
* Next PyPy sprint: 2nd-9th june, Duesseldorf 

  It seems that Armin, Michael, Samuele, Holger, Christian, Carl, 
  Arre, Eric (partly), Anto and possibly others can make it 
  to the next PyPy sprint from 
        2nd-9th June 2006

  It is almost set that we are going for Duesseldorf (germany) 
  as a location.  Michael to prepare an announcement until 
  saturday with review from Holger (and others).  Carl to 
  continue to fix a location.  
  Topics will be the 0.9 release, ext-compiler, stackless and
  more or less all topics that have been floating lately.

IRC logs 

May 11 17:00:48 -->	You are now talking on #pypy-sync
May 11 17:00:48 ---	Topic for #pypy-sync is PyPy - the flexible snake. This channel is used for pair programming and sync meetings.
May 11 17:00:48 ---	Topic for #pypy-sync set by xorAxAx at Sun Apr 16 21:44:23
May 11 17:01:58 -->	stakkars ( has joined #pypy-sync
May 11 17:02:25 -->	arigo ( has joined #pypy-sync
May 11 17:02:31 <hpk>	hi all
May 11 17:02:44 <arigo>	hi!
May 11 17:02:45 <arre>	hI!
May 11 17:02:47 <ericvrp>	hi
May 11 17:02:54 <pedronis>	hi
May 11 17:03:03 <antocuni>	hi
May 11 17:03:06 <mwh>	hi
May 11 17:03:17 <hpk>	ok, let's get started, i had hoped that Aurelien appears, let's see
May 11 17:03:18 <hpk>	we have
May 11 17:03:24 <hpk>	* activities
May 11 17:03:24 <hpk>	* thread cloning
May 11 17:03:24 <hpk>	* next sprint
May 11 17:03:30 <hpk>	activities then: 
May 11 17:03:37 <ericvrp>	LAST: dictiterator, sequenceiterator, SoC mentor application
May 11 17:03:37 <ericvrp>	NEXT: more iterator stuff, trying to get llvm profile information
May 11 17:03:37 <ericvrp>	BLOCKERS: variety of other pypy things I want to have fun with
May 11 17:03:39 <hpk>	LAST: iceland sprint, tb meetings, planning for 0.9, non-pypy stuff
May 11 17:03:39 <hpk>	NEXT: some py lib stuff, non-pypy
May 11 17:03:39 <hpk>	BLOCKERS: -
May 11 17:03:48 <stakkars>	DONE: work on Stackless topics, scheduling implementation tasks, designing, lots of sprint troubles
May 11 17:03:48 <stakkars>	NEXT: more work on that
May 11 17:03:48 <stakkars>	BLOCK: None
May 11 17:03:50 <arre>	PREV: Recover after Tokyo sprint, translation of rctypes.
May 11 17:03:50 <arre>	NEXT: More rctypes, maybe some JIT
May 11 17:03:50 <arre>	BLOCKERS: -
May 11 17:03:52 <antocuni>	LAST: rstr refactoring, lot of thesis-related work
May 11 17:03:54 <antocuni>	NEXT: more rstr recatoring
May 11 17:03:55 <antocuni>	BLOCKERS: none
May 11 17:04:11 <arigo>	LAST: multimethod table compression (pypy-c now smaller); prepare
May 11 17:04:11 <arigo>	         thread cloning
May 11 17:04:11 <arigo>	NEXT: thread cloning
May 11 17:04:11 <arigo>	BLOCKERS: time
May 11 17:04:30 <mwh>	LAST: holiday, catching up, new toy, discussion
May 11 17:04:30 <mwh>	NEXT: thread cloning?
May 11 17:04:30 <mwh>	BLOCKERS: -
May 11 17:05:04 <hpk>	ok, pedronis? 
May 11 17:05:21 <pedronis>	LAST: worked on gc issues and stackless transform with Armin, worked on rctypes stuff with arre, various non-coding stuff
May 11 17:05:23 <pedronis>	NEXT: will see, we need to work on the OOPSLA paper too
May 11 17:05:24 <pedronis>	BLOCKERS: too much stuff
May 11 17:05:43 <hpk>	ok, thanks 
May 11 17:05:47 <hpk>	then let's talk about thread cloning 
May 11 17:05:54 <hpk>	i guess everybody is aware of armin's posting to pypy-dev 
May 11 17:06:12 <stakkars>	yes, and I'd like to sign it
May 11 17:06:58 <hpk>	you mean that you agree to armin tackling the tasks regarding thread cloning as described? 
May 11 17:07:34 <stakkars>	it is pretty much what we descussed, yes
May 11 17:07:38 <hpk>	good
May 11 17:07:47 <stakkars>	but I've read the logic design paper, and I'm no longer convinced that this is what they need.
May 11 17:07:47 <hpk>	then there is the still somewhat open part regarding thread pickling
May 11 17:07:50 -->	stedi67 ( has joined #pypy-sync
May 11 17:07:54 stakkars stedi67 May 11 17:07:57 <hpk>	stedi67: hi stephan 
May 11 17:08:04 <stedi67>	hi, sorry, I'm a bit late...
May 11 17:08:15 <hpk>	stedi67: we are in thread cloning, but post your activity lines if you like 
May 11 17:08:22 stakkars stedi67 May 11 17:08:24 <stakkars>	thread pickling is in the works. I need to talk to Samuele and carry on
May 11 17:08:33 <hpk>	stakkars: can you commit to some time frame? 
May 11 17:09:18 <hpk>	arigo: could you grab 'auc' one day and see if the thread cloning approach and it's APIs would really help them? (i think we should make sure) 
May 11 17:09:32 <arigo>	yes
May 11 17:09:57 <stedi67>	LAST: set type
May 11 17:09:57 <stedi67>	NEXT: stackless, greenlet python module (app level)
May 11 17:09:57 <stedi67>	BLOCKERS: None
May 11 17:10:09 <hpk>	arigo: or maybe forward the pypy-dev mail with some extra explanation to Aurelien and Nicolas to be sure 
May 11 17:10:21 <stakkars>	I can't speak for eric but I think the problematic part is on my side
May 11 17:10:28 <arigo>	hpk: ok
May 11 17:10:55 stakkars stedi67 May 11 17:11:17 <stakkars>	I would love to get basic things working next week, but it is safer to envision "during the sprint" in June
May 11 17:11:33 <ericvrp>	stakkars, I'm sure your part is harder but I must admit I'm struggling too because it involves a lot of PyPy that I am unfamiliar with. I would like a piece of Samuele too :) (preferably his brain)
May 11 17:12:21 <stakkars>	ericvrp: we can talk about this, and I've been through very miuch during my stay, probably I can play a bit of Samuele
May 11 17:12:47 <stakkars>	(saying that I'm very much available now)
May 11 17:12:49 <pedronis>	FYI: I'm thinking of takign a vacation the week of the iceland sprint
May 11 17:13:12 <ericvrp>	stakkars, okay , good to know. Be prepared for a load of questions tomorrow!
May 11 17:13:13 <stakkars>	good idea. in Iceland? :-D
May 11 17:13:24 <pedronis>	no, I said vacation
May 11 17:13:28 <mwh>	:)
May 11 17:13:33 <arigo>	well, wild landscapes etc.
May 11 17:14:00 <hpk>	stakkars: but it means that you will work on having it finalized during the DDorf sprint then, right? 
May 11 17:14:07 <hpk>	thread pickling i mean 
May 11 17:14:09 <pedronis>	kind of sort more at home likely
May 11 17:14:22 <arigo>	pedronis: sure, I know (just kidding)
May 11 17:14:50 <stakkars>	this is the plan, but I don't know how realistic it is
May 11 17:15:10 -->	rxe (n=rxe@ has joined #pypy-sync
May 11 17:15:17 <rxe>	Hi!
May 11 17:15:25 <arigo>	hi!
May 11 17:15:32 <hpk>	stakkars: sidenote: we need to determine the status of WP07 and whether you can majorly care for the an EU report finalization in June (which is promised to the EU currently) 
May 11 17:15:33 <stakkars>	wahaaa
May 11 17:15:38 <rxe>	Thought I show face for a change! ;-)
May 11 17:15:42 <hpk>	rxe: hi richard :) 
May 11 17:15:46 <hpk>	rxe: hehe
May 11 17:15:52 stakkars stedi67 May 11 17:15:53 <mwh>	hi rxe
May 11 17:16:03 <ericvrp>	hee richard! welcome
May 11 17:16:10 <stakkars>	hpk: understood
May 11 17:16:13 <hpk>	stakkars: it's not impossible to consider shifting it, but it also relates to the overall project situation and we need to get clarity 
May 11 17:16:17 <arigo>	rxe: any three liners?...
May 11 17:16:51 <rxe>	BLOCKERS: no time ;-)
May 11 17:16:53 <hpk>	ok, then for now, i think we have enough clarity mostly 
May 11 17:17:03 <hpk>	and i'd like to move on to the "next sprint" topic
May 11 17:17:09 <arigo>	rxe: ah, no, we all posted that already :-)
May 11 17:17:16 <rxe>	:-)
May 11 17:17:35 <hpk>	as you read there is the suggestion for 2nd-9th june in DDorf 
May 11 17:17:42 *	arigo agrees
May 11 17:18:08 <hpk>	antocuni, ericvrp, arre, rxe, stedi67: i think you are the ones who didn't participate in this suggestion so far 
May 11 17:18:16 <hpk>	do you know already if you can likely make it? 
May 11 17:18:32 <antocuni>	I don't know yet
May 11 17:18:38 <arre>	It will work for me.
May 11 17:18:39 <rxe>	rxe: very unlikely:-(
May 11 17:18:46 <antocuni>	but I hope yes
May 11 17:18:56 <ericvrp>	Maybe for a very short while, (it's ony 1.5 hours from my hometown by train)
May 11 17:18:56 <hpk>	i also know from Maciej (the JS SOC guy) that he will likely be able to come 
May 11 17:19:13 <ericvrp>	hpk, that's why I would at least like to meet hime
May 11 17:19:29 <hpk>	antocuni: i really hope so as well!  if you need support for travel costs or so, mention it to us (e.g. me) or so 
May 11 17:19:53 <hpk>	ericvrp: yes, you should try to make sure to both appear at the same time if you do 
May 11 17:20:08 <ericvrp>	what a good idea :)
May 11 17:20:08 <hpk>	but also, we will have a number of release and some other critical tasks 
May 11 17:20:11 <stakkars>	obvious
May 11 17:20:20 <antocuni>	I was wondering how much does it costs by train
May 11 17:20:23 <hpk>	ericvrp: yes, brilliant idea, isn't it? :)
May 11 17:20:49 <mwh>	antocuni: it's a pretty long way, i think...
May 11 17:20:52 <hpk>	antocuni: no clue, but i'd think that catching a plane from malpensa to ddorf should be feasible 
May 11 17:20:54 *	stakkars grabbing coffee
May 11 17:21:05 <hpk>	antocuni: unless you are like carl a non-flier 
May 11 17:21:25 <antocuni>	no, flying is fine for me. It's all about money :-)
May 11 17:21:27 <hpk>	ok, so i think Carl will check out opportunities 
May 11 17:21:40 <antocuni>	maybe I can try to get fundings from my university
May 11 17:21:48 <hpk>	i think we should fix the sprint time and almost-fix the place but maybe only fix our travels when that is really known 
May 11 17:22:15 <mwh>	the world cup isn't going to make traveling around germany a pain is it?
May 11 17:22:22 <stakkars>	re
May 11 17:22:28 <hpk>	world cup, hum 
May 11 17:22:33 <hpk>	when was that agian? :) 
May 11 17:22:42 <mwh>	i can't remember
May 11 17:22:42 <hpk>	it isn't an EU deliverable is it? 
May 11 17:22:43 <mwh>	:)
May 11 17:22:51 <mwh>	i think it starts during the sprint
May 11 17:23:01 <hpk>	ah ok.  i ask lene, she definitely will know this. 
May 11 17:23:10 <hpk>	(soccer fan, you wouldn't believe it) 
May 11 17:23:21 <hpk>	anyway, we can close up soon i think 
May 11 17:23:27 <ericvrp>	I think the WC is end of june
May 11 17:23:28 <stakkars>	that can become a real blocker :-)
May 11 17:23:31 <mwh>	first match on the 9th
May 11 17:23:37 <hpk>	in DDorf? 
May 11 17:23:40 <mwh>	no
May 11 17:23:44 <hpk>	puh
May 11 17:23:46 <hpk>	ok
May 11 17:23:50 <hpk>	announcement 
May 11 17:23:53 <hpk>	any takers? 
May 11 17:24:04 <hpk>	should go out latest saturday i think 
May 11 17:24:16 <mwh>	i can do it, i guess
May 11 17:24:21 <hpk>	i can review 
May 11 17:24:28 <mwh>	cool
May 11 17:24:53 <hpk>	ok then, i think we are done then.  thanks all for coming!