Michael Hudson-Doyle avatar Michael Hudson-Doyle committed 453d789

rename all the pypy-sync minute files to use a sane date format.

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minute/pypy-sync-01-05-2006.txt

-=============================================
-pypy-sync developer meeting 5th January
-=============================================
-
-Time & location: 1pm (30 minutes), GMT+1 at #pypy-sync
-
-Attendees::
-
-         Anders Lehmann
-         Adrien di Mascio
-	 Christian Tismer
-	 Holger Krekel
-         Carl Friedrich Bolz
-	 Niklaus Haldimann
-	 Richard Emslie 
-         Armin Rigo
-	 Samuele Pedroni (moderation & minutes)
-
-Justified Absentees::
-
-         Eric van Riet Paap (sent status before meeting)
-         Anders Chrigstrom (vacation)
-         Michael Hudson (vacation)
-
-Regular Topics 
-====================
-
-- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info).
-  All Attendees submitted activity reports (see `IRC-Log`_
-  and 'LAST/NEXT/BLOCKERS' entries in particular)
-
-- resolve conflicts/blockers: No blockers
-
-Topics of the week
-===================
-
-Possible work between now and the Mallorca sprint
----------------------------------------------------
-(some core people will be partially busy with review preparation)
-
-* Finish interactive.py, the somepbc-refactoring branch broke bin/translator.py functionality,
-  this should reestablish it in some form (Samuele Pedroni)
-
-* Attach called low-level functions to call sites (Carl Friedrich Bolz)
-
-* Maybe GC framework integration preparation tasks, or l3 interpreter improvements; to be discussed
-  on #pypy
-
-Other
-------------------------------
-
-* Holger reminded of codespeak migration which will happen between now and the start of February
-
-* Merlinux new hire has a filming background. Holger discussed the possibilities with Bea. There may
-  be some sprint filming at future sprints.
-
-
-.. _`IRC-Log`:
-
-Complete IRC log
-=================
-
-complete log::
-
-  [12:57] <pedronis> so let's start, please post your status lines
-  [12:57] <aleale> PREV: Trying to get OWL parser to a usable state
-  [12:57] <aleale> NEXT: getting OWL parser usable
-  [12:57] <aleale> Blockers: -
-  [12:57] <adim> LAST: holidays
-  [12:57] <adim> NEXT: will work on exporting the grammar object, if time left, will work on WP10
-  [12:57] <adim> BLOCKERS: none
-  [12:57] <stakkars> DONE: ccc congress, recruiting negotiations, a bit of holidays
-  [12:57] <stakkars> NEXT: stackless module, preparing possible work chunks for coworkers
-  [12:57] <stakkars> BLOCK: None
-  [12:57] <hpk> LAST: 22C3 congress, EU issues, recovering
-  [12:57] <hpk> NEXT: EU-review preps, revised work plan
-  [12:57] <hpk> BLOCKERS: - um -
-  [12:58] <cfbolz> LAST: CCC conference, illness
-  [12:58] <cfbolz> NEXT: don't know yet, GC maybe?
-  [12:58] <cfbolz> BLOCKERS: none
-  [12:58] <nikh> LAST: holidays
-  [12:58] <nikh> NEXT: non-pypy (lurking)
-  [12:58] <nikh> BLOCKERS. none
-  [12:58] <rxe> NEXT: lurking
-  [12:58] <arigo> PREV: holidays, some jit refactoring; NEXT: unknown; BLOCKERS: none
-  [12:58] <pedronis> <ericvrp> Last: improved nighly benchmark cronjob Next: optimizations and a  little genjs, Blockers: bit ill
-  [12:59] <pedronis> Last: reports, vacation, bugs, isolate to run boehm tests
-  [12:59] <pedronis> Next: interactive, l3?, review preparation, ?
-  [12:59] <pedronis> Blockers: -
-  [12:59] <pedronis> ok, there are no blockers
-  [12:59] <cfbolz> but many ?s
-  [13:00] <pedronis> but is seems some people don't know exactly what to do between
-  [13:00] <pedronis> now and the review/sprint
-  [13:00] <pedronis> we should take into account that there is still some preparation for the review and discussions for core people
-  [13:00] <pedronis> but still is probably worth to discuss
-  [13:00] <pedronis> what is best done/achieve before the sprint
-  [13:01] <hpk> yes
-  [13:01] <hpk> let me note that sometime this month, latest mid february there will be a codespeak migration to a new environment
-  [13:01] <hpk> helios who hosted codespeak.net for three years now - finally said the traffic is getting too much
-  [13:01] <hpk> some 30-50 GB per month
-  [13:02] <cfbolz> oops
-  [13:02] <nikh> hoppla
-  [13:02] <hpk> more in an announcement when the time comes.
-  [13:02] <pedronis> ok
-  [13:03] <cfbolz> so what about work to be done?
-  [13:03] <cfbolz> there are still two reports, too :-(
-  [13:03] <pedronis> to format? yes
-  [13:03] <stakkars> about codespeak: I get that traffic for \u20ac39 per month at hetzner.de
-  [13:03] <hpk> and the EU review preps for some of us, indeed (armin, carl, samuele, me mostly)
-  [13:03] <cfbolz> pedronis: yes, I meant that
-  [13:04] <hpk> stakkars: we are also moving to hetzner but let's not discuss that here right now
-  [13:04] <pedronis> cfbolz, arigo: the question is what kind of work is best done before the sprint vs at the sprint
-  [13:04] <pedronis> I think that finishing the interactive for me is such kind of work
-  [13:04] <cfbolz> yes, not really a sprint task
-  [13:04] <arigo> yes
-  [13:05] <cfbolz> are there other such obvious non-sprint tasks?
-  [13:05] <pedronis> well, attaching ll functions called to call sites
-  [13:05] <cfbolz> yes, indeed
-  [13:07] <pedronis> arigo: do you have some jit stuff in mind for before the sprint?
-  [13:07] <arigo> I don't see much where it would make a difference to be at a sprint or not
-  [13:07] <arigo> ...at this point.
-  [13:07] <pedronis> yes
-  [13:08] <cfbolz> anything that should be done preparing for possible GC work?
-  [13:08] <pedronis> cfbolz: do you want to work on that (attaching ll functions to call sites)?
-  [13:08] <cfbolz> pedronis: yes, could do
-  [13:08] <arigo> there's always refactoring external function calls, but again it might be done during the sprint too
-  [13:08] <pedronis> cfbolz: maybe, we should discuss that on #pypy
-  [13:08] <hpk> cfbolz: bea requested to put the deliverable reports online visibly somewhere, makes sense IMO
-  [13:08] <cfbolz> yes, indeed
-  [13:08] <cfbolz> cfbolz: yes
-  [13:08] <cfbolz> hpk: next topic?
-  [13:08] <pedronis> cfbolz: the GC stuff
-  [13:09] <cfbolz> pedronis: yes?
-  [13:09] <hpk> cfbolz: sure, i am not aware, do we have a topic list?
-  [13:09] <pedronis> dicussing that on #pypy
-  [13:09] <cfbolz> ok
-  [13:09] <cfbolz> hpk: no, we don't. but we still shouldn't intermix :-)
-  [13:09] <pedronis> hpk: not really, people didn't sent in any topic wish
-  [13:09] <hpk> cfbolz: ok, i was just refering to what small things can be done before the sprint :)
-  [13:09] <stakkars> hpk: throwing in a hint was not meant to start a discussion...
-  [13:10] <pedronis> but I presumed what to do next was a likely topic
-  [13:10] <cfbolz> yes
-  [13:10] <pedronis> arigo, cfboly: I think some small l3 progress may make sense but is probably best to discuss it a bit on #pypy
-  [13:10] <hpk> arigo: i think refactoring external function calls makes sense at the sprint, also documenting it to allow people to better work on porting ext-modules
-  [13:10] <cfbolz> hpk: it _is_ documented :-)
-  [13:10] <cfbolz> it's just clumsy
-  [13:11] <hpk> cfbolz: well :)
-  [13:11] <arigo> well, refactoring and *then* documenting the new ways :-)
-  [13:11] <hpk> yip
-  [13:11] <arigo> makes sense
-  [13:11] <pedronis> ok, I think that's it for this topic, someone want to discuss something else in the last 10 mins?
-  [13:12] <hpk> just a side note: i am going to talk to �Prof. Leuschel on monday regarding Summer-of-PyPy specifics - he likes the idea and HHU being a carrier
-  [13:12] <hpk> thanks to michael who established the contact
-  [13:13] <cfbolz> pedronis: short topic: where/in what form should I put a link to the reports?
-  [13:13] <hpk> main doc index page IMO and also on pypy.org somewhere
-  [13:13] <hpk> the main doc index page should specificially hint at wp05 reports i think
-  [13:13] <hpk> the wp04 are not that interesting because they mostly copy what is on the website
-  [13:14] <cfbolz> just a link to the dir? or to a nicer description page maybe?
-  [13:14] <hpk> (except the parser report i think)
-  [13:14] <hpk> a nicer description page, also linking the 22C3 papers which are nicely in the book of proceedings, btw.
-  [13:15] <cfbolz> ok. I think I can start that description page today
-  [13:15] <cfbolz> yes, the 22c3 papers came out quite nicely
-  [13:15] <hpk> arigo: i guess you don't mind that i talk to leuschel as long as you don't have to worry about EU issues :)
-  [13:15] <arigo> np
-  [13:16] <cfbolz> so, was that it?
-  [13:16] <hpk> i have one more thing i'd like to mention (i did already to some people but here more people may get it)
-  [13:17] <pedronis> go ahead
-  [13:17] <hpk> we have a new person starting at merlinux who has a background in filming and movies
-  [13:18] <hpk> i discussed with Bea who heads the dissemination works and such - and she likes the idea of getting some non-text documentation about sprints and such
-  [13:18] <hpk> but that might mean that you all get filmed when you come to a sprint and such :)
-  [13:18] <cfbolz> "a sprint" == mallorca?
-  [13:18] <hpk> thea idea is to get some material on the website that allows people insights (maybe including interviews with developers or so) other than reading text reports
-  [13:19] <hpk> maybe mallorca, that is not clear yet
-  [13:19] <hpk> the question is: what do you all think of this?
-  [13:19] <aleale> +1
-  [13:19] <arigo> fine by me
-  [13:19] <stakkars> fine with me. Make sure to tell in advance, so I can clean the craziest T-shirts
-  [13:19] <hpk> hehe :)
-  [13:20] <nikh> from a PR point of view, this seems like a nice idea
-  [13:20] <cfbolz> nikh: but you hate being filmed? :-)
-  [13:20] <adim> as long as I'm not on the film, I'm fine with it :)
-  [13:20] <nikh> cfbolz: kinda ;)
-  [13:21] <hpk> ok, great thanks for the feeback
-  [13:22] <stakkars> OT: does anybody know how much space we have in Palma, are there limitations on # of people?
-  [13:22] <stakkars> because I'm going to be 3-4
-  [13:22] <stakkars> maybe 5 if rxe can make it
-  [13:22] <cfbolz> we probably have to ask bea
-  [13:23] <hpk> IIRC it is planned for 10-12 people ...
-  [13:24] <cfbolz> uh. might become a problem?
-  [13:24] <nikh> oh, only this few? there is a remote chance that i can come too, after all
-  [13:24] <stakkars> right now I see 12 people on the list
-  [13:24] <arigo> ugh, time to close this meeting :-)
-  [13:24] Action: arigo is very hungry
-  [13:24] <stakkars> let's follow this topic somewhere else
-  [13:25] <pedronis> yes, indeed
-  [13:25] <cfbolz> ok
-  [13:25] <cfbolz> see you all!
-  [13:25] <pedronis> I think we can close here

minute/pypy-sync-02-02-2006.txt

-=============================================
-pypy-sync developer meeting 2nd February 2006
-=============================================
-
-Time & location: 1pm (30 minutes), GMT+1 at #pypy-sync
-
-Attendees::
-
-         Adrien di Mascio
-         Anders Chrigstrom
-         Anders Lehmann
-         Aurelien Campeas
-	 Holger Krekel
-         Jan Balster
-         Eric van Riet Paap
-         Carl Friedrich Bolz
-	 Samuele Pedroni
-         Michael Hudson
-         Armin Rigo (moderation & minutes)
-
-Regular Topics 
-====================
-
-- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info).
-  All Attendees submitted activity reports (see `IRC-Log`_
-  and 'LAST/NEXT/BLOCKERS' entries in particular)
-
-- resolve conflicts/blockers: No blockers
-
-Topics of the week
-===================
-
-PyCon sprint announcement
-------------------------------
-
-Discussed and finalized the topics (in no particular order):
-
-* py lib subtrack, with a focus on issues relevant to PyPy
-* write GCs (we might start translating our own GCs by then)
-* rctypes (newcomer-friendly: writing 'socket' or some other module in ctypes)
-* logic programming: constraints; adding dataflow variables to PyPy
-* general JIT stuff (maybe)
-* general experiments with app-level code using PyPy features (thunk, ...)
-
-py.test
-------------------------------
-
-What could be better in py.test from the point of view of testing PyPy?
-
-* produces far too much output in general
-* improve the test selection mecanisms, e.g. -k should allow us to select
-  based on class name, or select one test of a generative test, etc.
-* test coverage
-* doctests (important from a community point of view)
-
-
-.. _`IRC-Log`:
-
-Complete IRC log
-=================
-
-complete log::
-
-  <adim> Hi everyone
-  <arigo> hi
-  <aleale> Hi
-  <hpk> hi
-  <cfbolz> hi all!
-  <arre> Hi!
-  <ericvrp> hi!
-  <auc> ih
-  <pedronis> hi
-  --> mwh (n=mwh@82-32-1-143.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #pypy-sync
-  <arigo> hi all
-  <arigo> let's start, please post your three-liners...
-  <ericvrp> LAST: raisingop2direct_call transformation, NEXT: finish transformation, BLOCKERS: -
-  <hpk> LAST: codespeak migration, wp14, non-pypy  NEXT: Ireland workshops  BLOCKERS: no
-  <hpk> ne
-  <auc> last : almost "finished" our prototype oz-like computation space
-  <auc> next : add merge op, implement basic search strategies with it
-  <auc> block : nil
-  <adim> LAST: helped Nicolas to prepare the "SolutionsLinux" exhibition / talked about PyPy to everyone passing around the Logilab's stand
-  <adim> NEXT: restart aspect / WP10 stuff
-  <adim> BLOCKERS: none
-  <mwh> LAST: sprint, being ill,
-  <aleale> PREV: Sprint on Logic, trying pyontology on an inhouse ontology
-  <aleale> NEXT: Pyontology, documentation, a little logic
-  <aleale> BLOCKERS : -
-  <cfbolz> LAST: mallorca sprint, some small pickling experiments
-  <cfbolz> NEXT: finish mailwitness sprint, relax a bit, continue gc work, py-lib release
-  <cfbolz> BLOCKERS: too much to do, as usual
-  <mwh> NEXT: finish genc refactoring
-  <mwh> BLOCKERS: -
-  <arre> PREV: Recuperating after Mallorca sprint.
-  <arre> NEXT: Working on the JIT with Samuele.
-  <arre> BLOCKERS: None
-  <pedronis> LAST: sprint, hint annotation
-  <pedronis> NEXT: more jit
-  <pedronis> BLOCKERS: -
-  <arigo> LAST: sprint, no much;  NEXT: some JIT work;  BLOCKERS: still recovering from sprint
-  <arigo> thanks
-  <arigo> PyCon sprint announcement
-  <arigo> ==============================
-  <arigo> during the Mallorca sprint, we wrote a file "what to do next"
-  <arigo> this contains several topics that make sense to include in the PyCon sprint announcement
-  <arigo> extradoc/sprintinfo/mallorca/post-mallorca-planning.txt
-  <arigo> I think that these topics could all be mentioned in the announcement,
-  <arigo> but it would be nice to have a few more
-  <hpk> we should hint at the pypy talks during the pycon talks in the announcement
-  <cfbolz> definitively
-  <hpk> and also (i mentioned this to arigo already) i'd like to do a bit of py lib sprinting as a sub-track
-  <hpk> related to improvements visible for pypy development
-  <mwh> we should try hard to make the sprint announcements non-intimidating
-  <arigo> mwh: yes
-  * hpk thinks that the py lib topics can help there :) 
-  <pedronis> :)
-  <arigo> I expect the sprint to be pretty much a "what are you interested in?" kind of sprint, with not too many pypy corers there
-  <cfbolz> how many days are there actually?
-  <mwh> four
-  <cfbolz> so it's not _that_ big anywya
-  <mwh> but for one reason and another a lot of people will only be there for 3.5 or so days
-  <hpk> the sprint directly starts after the conf, btw (no break day)
-  <pedronis> which means tired people
-  <hpk> a bit, yes
-  <hpk> does it make sense to offer experimentation stuff?
-  <hpk> like extending the thunk space, playing on top of it, refining it?
-  * hpk thinks that we will need an internal core sprint between now and may because both japan and pycon are likely not allowing us to tackle the tough stuff
-  <arigo> we could propose this kind of things
-  <mwh> i think the gc stuff should be mentioned
-  <arigo> also with other spaces, not just thunk
-  <mwh> particularly if you can translate the gc framework by then...
-  <hpk> mwh: definitely
-  <cfbolz> mwh: which is unclear, but indeed the goal :-)
-  <hpk> being able to write GCs would be cool - but i am a bit skeptical (without really being able to judge)
-  <mwh> cfbolz: :)
-  <arigo> hpk: I'm more optimistic
-  <hpk> good :)
-  <arigo> anyway, it's a good topic, yes
-  <mwh> hpk: can an additional sprint be another topic ?
-  <arigo> and definitely rctypes
-  <hpk> are the rctypes people from mallorca going to be at pycon?
-  <hpk> i mean gromit and stephan?
-  <arigo> I guess not
-  <mwh> no
-  <arigo> that shouldn't stop us, though
-  <cfbolz> mwh: indeed :-)
-  <hpk> arigo: ok
-  <arigo> writing an ext module in ctypes is a good way to contribute to PyPy
-  <mwh> arigo: yes
-  <arigo> because learning internals for 4 days isn't quite enough
-  <aleale> I hope to come so we could add a topic about implementing logic
-  <arigo> aleale: anything more precise in mind?
-  <hpk> is socket still a topic or only after we know that we will build on the (r)ctypes approach?
-  <arigo> I believe we can make socket-on-ctypes a topic, but it also seems to be a very demanded topic
-  <aleale> well it is hard to say since I dontknow how far we will be when Pycon comes around
-  * hpk wonders how many people in the US are into logic programming (that will come to pycon)
-  <arigo> I know that both Holger and Christian are considering hiring people and giving socket as work :-)
-  <aleale> but auc and I could try make it mmore concrete
-  <hpk> arigo: well, that is quite vague still
-  <hpk> arigo: shouldn't stop us from tackling it at the pycon sprint in any case :)
-  <arigo> aleale: ok -- otherwise just mention logic and Oz in a short line
-  <arigo> hpk: ok
-  <auc> arigo: the answer depends on the state of integration of computation spaces into pypy
-  <auc> we don't know that in advance
-  * hpk could try to write a draft announcement until saturday morning, cannot promise to do it earlier
-  <auc> and I have no clue, currently, abouut how to do it
-  <arigo> ok, then to summarize the topics:
-  <mwh> i think at this point we want to nominate one or two people to write the announcement, not try to write it now?
-  <arigo> * py lib
-  <arigo> * gc
-  <arigo> * rctypes
-  <arigo> * logic
-  <arigo> * (probably a note about jit)
-  <auc> arigo: can you say "constraints" instead of "logic" ?
-  <arigo> sure
-  <hpk> * experimenting with pypy possibilities
-  <auc> 'cause constraints will be there before logic ...
-  <arigo> hpk: ok
-  <hpk> especially co-routines, thunk+X spaces etc.
-  <mwh> "experimenting with pypy possibilities" seems almost limitlessly vague
-  <hpk> mwh: we are on IRC here, aren'T we? :)
-  <mwh> heh
-  <arigo> hpk: I guess you mean in general playing with mostly app-level code that uses the new pypy features
-  <hpk> yes
-  <auc> a more focused idea could be : putting dataflow variables into pypy
-  <hpk> but also refining/extending the thunk space
-  <auc> making dataflow vars. work with microthreads
-  <arigo> hpk: you can already do a lot with the thunk space, I'm not sure what non-app-level extensions you have in mind
-  <auc> that's a building block for comp. spaces
-  <arigo> auc: that's more a design topic so far, isn't it?
-  <auc> arigo: uh ... what exactly ? (is more a design topic) ?
-  <auc> df vars ?
-  <arigo> yes, particularly how to fit them in the Python language, and how to hook them on microthreads
-  <arigo> unless you have more precise ideas already, of course
-  <cfbolz> (which we would then like to know :-)
-  <hpk> arigo: am mostly thinking about distribution of objects including their functions (so that not only object state is transparently moving between servers but also the code ...)
-  <auc> arigo: ok
-  <hpk> arigo: maybe that's possible already - i am not sure
-  <cfbolz> could we maybe try to also discuss the next topic a bit too? jan is mostly here for that
-  <arigo> hpk: that's also a design topic :-)  I don't see clearly if and how to fit this in the thunk space in particular
-  <arigo> cfbolz: sure
-  <arigo> py.test
-  <arigo> =======================
-  <hpk> mwh: do we still assign to the task of finalizing the announcement?  Or do you do a draft with armin or Samuele or what?
-  <mwh> hpk: dunno! :)
-  <mwh> i should be around this afternoon to work on a draft
-  <hpk> arigo: if you write a draft i am going to review/amend it
-  <arigo> let's talk about it on #pypy
-  <arigo> (hpk: I have some more to say to you)
-  * hpk will be out after the sync meeting  but ok 
-  <hpk> arigo: ok, then
-  <arigo> anything you want to complain about py.test?
-  <hpk> so any complaints about py.test?
-  <hpk> none?  fine then we can close the meeting :)
-  <cfbolz> I want some features :-)
-  <aleale> I have had the need to be able to filter in generative test. I havent found a way to name the generative tests so that -k  works.
-  <mwh> my pypy feature resuest: i'd like a --tb=foo thing that just listed the failing tests
-  <aleale> s/test/tests
-  <hpk> aleale: indeed, that's not possible currently i think
-  <cfbolz> I think  -k needs to be refined in general
-  <hpk> mwh: no tracebacks at all then?
-  <mwh> in general, as arigo said we produce far too much output
-  <mwh> hpk: yes
-  <hpk> cfbolz: yes
-  <cfbolz> because you also cannot match the class names
-  <mwh> hpk: maybe the failing exception name or something
-  <hpk> and the file/line number i guess
-  <mwh> hpk: this is usually so i can work out what -k to pass :)
-  <hpk> makes sense i think
-  <mwh> yes, that might be good to work out if all the failures are like to be the same
-  <cfbolz> I also really want some sort of test coverage
-  <mwh> like -> likely
-  <hpk> nobody wants doctests? :)
-  <mwh> the "too much output" thing is partially our fault i guess
-  <cfbolz> and some way to add (dynamic?) tags to tests
-  <ericvrp> When I had some RPython code that would not annotate I would have liked a feature that simulates manual --pdb option and then looking for a translator object so t.view() can be done to see the offending block
-  <cfbolz> and select tests in different ways
-  <mwh> some kind of py.log magic might help
-  * hpk sidenotes that py.log is going to be refined soon - but we will ensure that pypy's usage will be fixed accordingly 
-  <arigo> so we have mostly
-  <arigo> * too much output
-  <arigo> * better test selection
-  <cfbolz> * test coverage
-  <hpk> * doctests (i really think it makes sense also for pypy)
-  <mwh> hpk: i'm glad i never worked out how to use py.log then :)
-  <arigo> I don't feel the need for the last two items at all but I'm not against them either :-)
-  <cfbolz> arigo: thank you :-)
-  <arigo> can we close this meeting for now?
-  <hpk> ;)
-  <arigo> time...
-  <hpk> from my side: yes and thanks!
-  <pedronis> I thin doctests are important form a community POV, lots of people seems into them
-  <cfbolz> pedronis: indeed
-  <mwh> yes, all from me
-  * arigo closes the meeting -- thanks
-  <hpk> * being able to run compliance/other tests with pypy-c and py.test :)
-  <cfbolz> bye all!
-  <aleale> bye
-  <adim> see you
-  <-- adim (n=adim@logilab.net2.nerim.net) has left #pypy-sync
-  <hpk> bye
-  <arre> Bye!
-  <pedronis> bye
-  <janb> bye
-  <ericvrp> bye
-  <auc> bye

minute/pypy-sync-02-16-2006.txt

-==============================================
-pypy-sync developer meeting 16th February 2006
-==============================================
-
-Time & location: 1pm (30 minutes), GMT+1 at #pypy-sync
-
-Attendees::
-
-         Carl Friedrich Bolz
-         Anders Chrigstrom
-         Aurelien Campeas
-         Nik Haldimann
-	 Holger Krekel
-	 Samuele Pedroni
-         Eric van Riet Paap
-         Armin Rigo
-         Michael Hudson (moderation & minutes)
-
-Regular Topics 
-====================
-
-- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info).
-  All Attendees submitted activity reports (see the `IRC Log`_
-  and 'LAST/NEXT/BLOCKERS' entries in particular)
-
-- resolve conflicts/blockers: No blockers
-
-Topics of the week
-===================
-
-
-- pycon sprint planning
-
-  Michael agreed to update our sprint tutorial materials.  There was
-  consensus that the "Paris style" of daily planning meetings and
-  small-ish discussion groups presenting results was likely to be a
-  good approach, although flexibility is required as we don't really
-  know who's going to be there.  Arre agreed to see if the Strakt
-  projector could be brought along.
-
-- mozart/oz sprint
-
-  Shortly before the meeting Nicolas checked in (revision 23397,
-  pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/louvain-la-neuve-2006) enough information
-  to answer all questions :)
-
-- extra core sprint
-  
-  There was agreement that we need a core sprint before EuroPython.
-  Armin suggested the middle or end of March in Leysin, but most other
-  people preferred the beginning of April.  Armin agreed to
-  investigate a sprint location in Leysin for the dates 3-9th of
-  April.  So if you didn't attend the meeting, do want to attend the
-  sprint and can't make these dates, now would be the time to shout :)
-
-- state of stackless
-
-  The WP9 work requires an efficient threading implementation.
-  Aurelien wanted to know if the stackless work had progressed to the
-  point of making an efficient green threads implementation to be
-  made.  Armin said that anything was probably possible, but that
-  precise details of what was needed were required.
-
-  There was agreement that there should be a session on this at a
-  sprint, or if that failed a planned session on IRC about the topic.
-  The issue not especially time-critical, fortunately.
-
-- moderation of pypy-sync meetings
-
-  There was consensus that too many people will be in the air to have
-  a pypy-sync meeting next week.  As most of those people will still
-  be at pycon a week later for the next pypy-sync meeting, it's not
-  clear that there will be one on the 2nd of March either.
-
-
-.. _`IRC log`:
-
-Complete IRC log
-=================
-
-::
-
-    [12:55] <mwh> ok, my clock says 12:02
-    [12:55] arigo (n=arigo@p54AB84C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #pypy-sync.
-    [12:55] <mwh> so i'd like to start
-    [12:55] <mwh> activity reports, please
-    [12:55] <auc> LAST: finished streams, scheduling problem
-    [12:55] <auc> NEXT: exercise the solver with various problems, dbugging
-    [12:55] <auc> BLOCK: nil
-    [12:56] <mwh> LAST: genc work
-    [12:56] <mwh> NEXT: more genc, pycon preparations
-    [12:56] <mwh> BLOCKERS: -
-    [12:56] <nikh> LAST: random explorations and fixes
-    [12:56] <nikh> NEXT: more explorations, also around rctypes and ootypesystem
-    [12:56] <nikh> BLOCKERS: none
-    [12:56] <ericvrp> LAST: stackless optimization and transformation, NEXT: more of that, BLOCKERS: -
-    [12:56] <hpk> LAST: codespeak refinements, press release, non-pypy
-    [12:56] <hpk> NEXT: pycon + sprints, customer-meeting
-    [12:56] <hpk> BLOCKERS:
-    [12:56] <arre> PREV: JIT-work
-    [12:56] <arre> NEXT: JIT-work
-    [12:56] <arre> BLOCKERS: None
-    [12:56] <cfbolz> LAST: some GC work with Armin: finding the roots sort of works somewhat
-    [12:56] <cfbolz> NEXT: maybe more GC work
-    [12:56] <cfbolz> BLOCKERS: not enough time
-    [12:57] <mwh> arigo, pedronis ?
-    [12:57] <pedronis> LAST: jit work, help with GC, some opt and polish, bug fixingwork
-    [12:57] <pedronis> NEXT: jit,, pycon
-    [12:57] <pedronis> BLOCKERS: -
-    [12:57] <arigo> LAST: Psyco stuff, GC framework progress with Carl
-    [12:57] <arigo> NEXT: more JIT, possibly more GC
-    [12:57] <arigo> BLOCKERS: -
-    [12:57] <mwh> ok
-    [12:57] <mwh> the first topic is pycon sprint planning
-    [12:58] <mwh> i'm not sure what we need to do other than update our tutorial
-    [12:58] <mwh> (also, we have some talks to write, i think...)
-    [12:58] Action: hpk will take care for the py lib/py.test track of that sprint
-    [12:58] <hpk> i guess we are going to proceed similarly to paris
-    [12:58] <mwh> does anyone desperately want to work on the tutorial?
-    [12:59] <mwh> hpk: in which way do you mean?
-    [12:59] <hpk> mwh: having short "result presesntation and rough planning" daily sessions and otherwise work more in sub-groups
-    [12:59] <mwh> hpk: ah right
-    [12:59] <hpk> arre,pedronis: can we have the projector there?
-    [12:59] <mwh> i think we probably need to be flexbile (agile, even :) and see who turns up
-    [13:00] <hpk> yes
-    [13:00] <hpk> arigo: can you also prepare our architecture session talk a bit before the conference?
-    [13:00] <mwh> if noone else wants to work on the tutorial, i can do it
-    [13:00] <arre> hpk: Provided Jacob does not want it I'll make sure to bring it allong.
-    [13:00] <hpk> mwh: would be great - i can review it at the conference but not before i guess
-    [13:01] <mwh> we've got a fair few topics to get though today, don't want to talk about this for two long
-    [13:01] <arigo> hpk: yes
-    [13:01] <mwh> so, decisions: arre to check about beamer, me to look at tutorial
-    [13:01] <mwh> any dissent?
-    [13:01] <hpk> no, fine
-    [13:02] <mwh> - mozart/oz sprint
-    [13:02] <mwh> i think for this we'd just like to hear dates, plans, who's going
-    [13:02] <auc> nicolas just posted some bits of information about that
-    [13:02] <mwh> i take it this is an insiders only sprint
-    [13:02] <auc> into svn
-    [13:02] <mwh> auc: ah
-    [13:02] <cfbolz> mwh: the sprint announcement does not sound like it
-    [13:02] <hpk> well, it can't hurt to do an announcement at least to pypy-dev?
-    [13:02] <mwh> cfbolz: ok
-    [13:03] <mwh> ah yes, i see the check in now
-    [13:03] <auc> http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/louvain-la-neuve-2006/
-    [13:03] <mwh> ok, well i guess that  check in answers all the questions
-    [13:03] <mwh> move on to next topic?
-    [13:04] <cfbolz> mwh: yes :-)
-    [13:04] <mwh> - extra core sprint
-    [13:04] <mwh> i don't think there's much doubt that we need another sprint before europython
-    [13:05] <mwh> as both pycon and tokyo will be dissemination focussed to some extent
-    [13:05] <mwh> and louvain-la-neuve is a bit off centre
-    [13:05] <cfbolz> mwh: agreed
-    [13:05] <arigo> there is a non-concrete idea about Leysin, but more mid-end-of-March than early April
-    [13:05] <mwh> arigo: i see
-    [13:05] <hpk> arigo: early april would not be possible?
-    [13:05] <mwh> i can't make the end of march
-    [13:06] Action: hpk will not make it mid/end march either
-    [13:06] <arigo> the longer we wait, the less snow we have :-/
-    [13:06] <cfbolz> arigo: I would also prefer early april :-)
-    [13:06] <mwh> arigo: hmm :)
-    [13:06] <mwh> i don't know if we want to try and decide dates now
-    [13:06] <mwh> just "yes, we need a sprint"
-    [13:07] <hpk> well, it seems that early april is more likely to fit at least with carl, michael and me
-    [13:07] <arigo> yes, we need a sprint
-    [13:07] <hpk> just time-wise
-    [13:07] <cfbolz> mwh: yes, we need a sprint
-    [13:07] <arigo> hpk: point taken
-    [13:07] <pedronis> mid of march doesn't work for me either
-    [13:07] <mwh> auc: how about logilab?
-    [13:07] <auc> don't know
-    [13:07] <mwh> it seems getting logilab and tismerysoft in the same place at some point would be a good thing
-    [13:08] <mwh> (see next topic...)
-    [13:08] <cfbolz> indeed
-    [13:09] <auc> but april is better than march
-    [13:09] <hpk> ericvrp: how is beginning april for you?
-    [13:09] <ericvrp> I don't think I can make it to an intermediatte sprint
-    [13:09] <mwh> arigo: is leysin-in-april still a workable plan?
-    [13:09] <hpk> ericvrp: ok, i thought that because you don't come to pycon ... but then you'd like to go to tokyo, i see
-    [13:09] <mwh> (apart from the snow issue)
-    [13:10] <arigo> mwh: I propose that we fix potential dates (to be checked by me):
-    [13:10] <ericvrp> maybe I can come for a very short while, if that makes sense at all
-    [13:10] <arigo> the week of the 3rd-7th of April
-    [13:10] <hpk> arigo: yes, sounds like it
-    [13:10] <mwh> arigo: yes
-    [13:10] <hpk> and people can come around (preferably before) if they want to ski
-    [13:10] <arigo> if we don't fix dates now it will slip later Yet Another Time :-)
-    [13:11] <mwh> (predictably enough i'm prancing around in rock shoes the previous week...)
-    [13:11] <hpk> arigo: will you check out the old setting?
-    [13:11] <mwh> arigo: yes, agreed
-    [13:11] <mwh> 3-7?
-    [13:11] <arigo> (when's Easter?)
-    [13:11] <arigo> hpk: the same place, yes
-    [13:11] <mwh> easter sunday is 23rd april
-    [13:11] <mwh> i think
-    [13:11] <arre> arigo: The week after.
-    [13:11] <hpk> 3-7th sounds a bit like no-breakday?
-    [13:11] <hpk> it's five days
-    [13:12] <arigo> arre: 16th? thanks
-    [13:12] <arigo> hpk: I talked about the week
-    [13:12] <hpk> ah ok
-    [13:12] <hpk> so we are talking about 3-9th with a breakday in between or so
-    [13:12] <mwh> er, yes 16th
-    [13:12] <cfbolz> yes, sounds good to me
-    [13:12] <mwh> 3-9 works for me
-    [13:13] <hpk> pedronis, arre: would work for you as well?
-    [13:13] <mwh> so, mention this on pypy-dev?
-    [13:13] <arre> 3-9 is not a problem for me.
-    [13:13] <pedronis> it works for me
-    [13:13] <arigo> mwh: ok (I need to check of course)
-    [13:13] <mwh> i'd like to move on to the next topic soon ish
-    [13:13] <mwh> arigo: of course
-    [13:13] <hpk> arigo: yip
-    [13:13] <hpk> fine with me, mwh: i think it's enough for now to mention it prominently in the minutes
-    [13:14] <mwh> hpk: ok
-    [13:14] <mwh> next topic:
-    [13:14] <mwh> - state of stackless
-    [13:14] Action: ericvrp Christian needs to answer that one
-    [13:14] <mwh> this is auc's topic, but basically i think the question is particularly about whether there are concrete plans for microthreads
-    [13:15] <mwh> ericvrp: yeah
-    [13:15] <mwh> it's about 2am where he is though, i think
-    [13:15] <arigo> I think Christian's got coroutines, greenlets and tasklets so far
-    [13:15] <auc> what are green/tasklets ?
-    [13:15] <auc> wrt coroutines ?
-    [13:15] <arigo> and it should be very easy to add other abstractions
-    [13:15] <mwh> arigo: is that enough to build microthreads at app level?
-    [13:15] <arigo> auc: mostly just a different, slightly richer interface than bare coroutines
-    [13:16] <mwh> i guess not with preemption
-    [13:16] <auc> mwh: sure
-    [13:16] <arigo> mwh: yes, it all depends on what is needed more precisely
-    [13:16] <cfbolz> indeed
-    [13:16] <auc> anyway real threads are needed, if only because they are part of python, no ?
-    [13:16] <mwh> i guess pypy-sync isn't really the forum for this discussion in the long run
-    [13:16] <cfbolz> auc: well, yes. but you cannot have thousands of them
-    [13:17] <auc> sure, that's why we want picrothreads
-    [13:17] <auc> (shit)
-    [13:17] <auc> it's not extremely urgent
-    [13:17] <cfbolz> picothreads?
-    [13:17] <arigo> auc: the answer is that it's mostly easy for any of us to build whatever you need, but it must be more well-defined
-    [13:17] <auc> micro, nano, pico, femto, whatever ;-)
-    [13:18] <mwh> auc: good to know (about the urgency)
-    [13:18] <cfbolz> auc: well, would you want the exactly the same interface as threads, for example
-    [13:18] <auc> arigo: it's simple, we want efficient threads
-    [13:18] <mwh> ideal would be to have a session on this at a sprint
-    [13:18] <auc> bonus : threads that return values
-    [13:18] <arigo> auc: but for example, do you need threads that can block on system calls without blocking other threads
-    [13:18] <auc> bonus : threads that expose the interface present in Oz
-    [13:18] <arigo> auc: I guess not
-    [13:19] <auc> arigo: I guess yes
-    [13:19] <mwh> if not, would it make sense to schedule some irc session to get the relevant parties together?
-    [13:19] <arigo> auc: that's very hard to do without real OS threads
-    [13:19] <auc> this interface is describe in some document I've committed already
-    [13:19] <arigo> mwh: yes
-    [13:19] <auc> I can move it to doc/discussions
-    [13:19] <cfbolz> yes please
-    [13:19] <auc> arigo: ok we'll see
-    [13:20] <mwh> so ideally this will be talked about at lln/leysin
-    [13:20] <mwh> otherwise irc sometime
-    [13:20] <mwh> now for two minutes:
-    [13:20] <mwh> who moderates the next pypy-sync?
-    [13:20] <mwh> it's not going to be me!
-    [13:20] <arigo> (auc: feel free to talk about in in #pypy at any time :-)
-    [13:21] <cfbolz> mwh: will there be enough people on next thursday?
-    [13:21] <nikh> aren't about half of the people present here going to be on planes next pypy-sync?
-    [13:21] <arigo> 23rd?  half of us are in the plane
-    [13:21] <mwh> cfbolz: don't know
-    [13:21] <hpk> nikh: true
-    [13:21] <hpk> don't planes have wireless these days?
-    [13:21] <mwh> ok, so maybe there will not be a pypy-sync next week
-    [13:21] <mwh> that's fine
-    [13:22] <mwh> hpk: only if you pay $$$$ i think
-    [13:22] <auc> arigo: yup
-    [13:22] <cfbolz> mwh: then let's plan the one afterwards
-    [13:22] <mwh> well, the one afterwards is on the day i'm travelling again
-    [13:22] <cfbolz> argh
-    [13:22] <mwh> it will be about 5am local time for pycon-ers, i think
-    [13:23] <hpk> hum
-    [13:23] <hpk> well, then let's not decide now in a hurry
-    [13:23] <mwh> ok
-    [13:23] <mwh> there are maybe 30 seconds for any final points :)
-    [13:24] <hpk> (we could take the opportunity to shift it to a different time)
-    [13:24] <mwh> consistency is good though
-    [13:24] <mwh> anyway, time up
-    [13:24] Action: mwh closes the meeting

minute/pypy-sync-07-14-2005.txt

-=============================================
-pypy-sync developer meeting 14th July 2005
-=============================================
-
-
-Attendees:  Samuele, Anders C., Anders L., Adrien Di Mascio, Ludovic Aubrien, 
-            Christian Tismer, Carl-Friedrich Bolz, Holger Krekel 
-
-Excused with Pre-Info: Armin 
-
-
-Regular Topics 
-====================
-
-- roll call. OK.
-
-- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info). 
-  Everybody submitted activity reports (see `IRC-Log`_ at the end)
-
-- re-assigning / adjusting planning / resolve conflicts/blockers
-
-  Everybody except Anders Lehmann has plans for next week. 
-  No conflicts.  Anders L., Samuele and Holger are to try discuss
-  tasks for Anders outside of this pypy-sync meeting. Holger 
-  notes that he wants to be signalled before the meeting 
-  if somebody is lacking tasks. 
-
-Topics of the week
-===================
-
-fixating sprint in Hildesheim (25th-31st July)
--------------------------------------------------
-
-Armin, Samuele, Christian, Carl (except for one day) and Holger 
-can make it to the Hildesheim sprint.  We decided that it will 
-take place. 
-
-decide/agree about usage of issue tracker (for 0.6.2/0.7.0)
------------------------------------------------------------
-
-everybody agrees and recognizes that we are going to use 
-the issue tracker for the upcoming releases. So be it. 
-
-list current main areas of work regarding reaching Deliverable D05.2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-Armin: Progressing on translate_pypy.py.  There is a temp file
-pypy/translator/goal/ISSUES.txt which lists currently open issues.  
-Samuele adds that he has some worries about memory usage 
-regarding the rtyping process but nothing concrete yet. 
-Generally the strategy is to try translate_pypy.py with 
-a different SEED.  Christian will add info to ISSUES.txt 
-about how to use it. 
-
-Heidelberg sprint planning status, 22nd-29th August 
-----------------------------------------------------------
-
-It is re-confirmed that the sprint should take place 
-from 22nd-29th in Heidelberg, Germany.  Carl Friedrich will fix
-the place now and report back.  We should discuss/prepare 
-the sprint-announcement regarding topics etc.pp. at the
-next sync-meeting. 
-
-Close
----------
-
-Holger closes the meeting in time at 13:30pm. 
-
-.. _`IRC-log`: 
-
-Here is the full IRC log:: 
-
- **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 14 13:01:32 2005
- Jul 14 13:01:32 -->	You are now talking on #pypy-sync
- Jul 14 13:01:32 ---	#pypy-sync :[freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
- Jul 14 13:02:30 <hpk>	pedronis: hello?
- Jul 14 13:02:34 -->	adim (~adim@fny94-6-82-229-225-51.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #pypy-sync
- Jul 14 13:02:39 <pedronis>	hpk: hi
- Jul 14 13:03:02 <adim>	Hi Holger, Hi Samuele
- Jul 14 13:03:06 <hpk>	hi adrien
- Jul 14 13:03:07 -->	cfbolz (~a@zenon.physi.uni-heidelberg.de) has joined #pypy-sync
- Jul 14 13:03:10 -->	arre (ac@ratthing-b40b.strakt.com) has joined #pypy-sync
- Jul 14 13:03:17 -->	aleale (~chatzilla@83.72.68.168.ip.tele2adsl.dk) has joined #pypy-sync
- Jul 14 13:03:38 <hpk>	cfbolz: hi carl
- Jul 14 13:03:49 <hpk>	ok, i think we can start the meeting.
- Jul 14 13:03:56 <hpk>	armin send me info already he might make it later 
- Jul 14 13:04:00 -->	ludal (~ludal@lab75-1-81-57-254-81.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #pypy-sync
- Jul 14 13:04:08 <hpk>	christian didn't say anything, though
- Jul 14 13:04:11 <hpk>	anyway. 
- Jul 14 13:04:24 <hpk>	the idea is to really stick to the 30 minutes, we will end the meeting at 13:30 
- Jul 14 13:04:37 <hpk>	so don't walk away to grab a coffee or something :-) 
- Jul 14 13:04:46 <hpk>	here is the agenda: 
- Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	- roll call
- Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info)
- Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	- re-assigning / adjusting planning / resolve conflicts/blockers
- Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	- Topics of the week:
- Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	  - fixating sprint in Hildesheim (25th-31st July)
- Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	  - decide/agree about usage of issue tracker (for 0.6.2/0.7.0)
- Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	  - list current main areas of work regarding reaching Deliverable D05.2
- Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	  - Heidelberg sprint planning status (now: 15-22th August !!!)
- Jul 14 13:05:19 <hpk>	everybody fine with this agenda? 
- Jul 14 13:05:27 <cfbolz>	yes
- Jul 14 13:05:30 <aleale>	yes
- Jul 14 13:05:36 <pedronis>	yes
- Jul 14 13:05:55 <adim>	yes
- Jul 14 13:05:55 <arre>	yes
- Jul 14 13:05:56 <hpk>	ok, then activity reports: i'll just start off with my and Armin's info: 
- Jul 14 13:06:03 <hpk>	last week: begin interpreter-docs, fix codespeak/website issues, fix testresults page, some eu/managementissues
- Jul 14 13:06:03 <hpk>	next week: finish interpreter docs, write external (oslevel) functions, prepare codespeak-move
- Jul 14 13:06:03 <hpk>	blocking: (slightly) terminology cleanup / missing glossary / (maybe llvm-state)
- Jul 14 13:06:14 ---	You are now known as arigo
- Jul 14 13:06:28 <arigo>	last week: rtyper; progress in translate_pypy; polished framework for external func calls.
- Jul 14 13:06:28 <arigo>	next week: holidays until wednesday
- Jul 14 13:06:28 <arigo>	blockers: None
- Jul 14 13:06:35 ---	You are now known as hpk
- Jul 14 13:06:40 <cfbolz>	last week: logistics, accomodation for Heidelberg sprint; own stuff
- Jul 14 13:06:40 <cfbolz>	next week: more logistics; garbage collection
- Jul 14 13:06:40 <cfbolz>	blockers: my own stuff takes too much time :-(
- Jul 14 13:06:41 <hpk>	pedronis: you continue? 
- Jul 14 13:06:49 <hpk>	cfbolz: ok
- Jul 14 13:06:49 <cfbolz>	sorry
- Jul 14 13:06:52 <hpk>	np
- Jul 14 13:07:00 <pedronis>	DONE: translate_pypy progress, instatiate of classes with Armin...; solved some attributes that were attached too high the hierarchy, some support for pyobjs ops in the llinterp, and more work with Arre on translate_pypy; refactored rtyper to use argument.py for args parsing and call_args support
- Jul 14 13:07:01 <pedronis>	NEXT: more translate_pypy work, possibly refactor specialisation to treats override and memos as builtins, refactor gencapi usage to go through external func table
- Jul 14 13:07:03 <pedronis>	ISSUES: a bit worried about rtyping mem usage but too soon too really tell
- Jul 14 13:07:43 <hpk>	adim, ludal, aleale, arre: in this order? 
- Jul 14 13:07:44 -->	stakkars (ihdhcvza@i528C1A57.versanet.de) has joined #pypy-sync
- Jul 14 13:07:53 <stakkars>	hi
- Jul 14 13:07:56 <hpk>	stakkars: hi christian, we are in activity reports already 
- Jul 14 13:08:03 <adim>	last week: Nothing since Europython sprint
- Jul 14 13:08:12 <adim>	next week: astbuilder (parser/compiler)
- Jul 14 13:08:18 <stakkars>	here my three sentences:
- Jul 14 13:08:19 <stakkars>	I have worked on long math and strutil and continued on seed 49 
- Jul 14 13:08:19 <stakkars>	I want to work on seed 49 next week
- Jul 14 13:08:19 <stakkars>	main blocker is windows, and I cannot use the fork thing.
- Jul 14 13:08:25 <adim>	blockers: nothing in particular
- Jul 14 13:08:30 <ludal>	last week: work on providing translatable ast builder
- Jul 14 13:08:30 <ludal>	next week: try and finish it
- Jul 14 13:08:30 <ludal>	blockers: none
- Jul 14 13:08:54 <aleale>	last week: vacation
- Jul 14 13:09:11 <aleale>	next week: weakref, ?
- Jul 14 13:09:20 <aleale>	blocks : none
- Jul 14 13:09:53 *	stakkars is sorry to be late, the machine decided to run a windows update right now :-(
- Jul 14 13:10:02 <hpk>	ludal: you are going to post? 
- Jul 14 13:10:13 <hpk>	stakkars: what is "seed 49"? 
- Jul 14 13:10:19 <arre>	Last week: Fixing some problems related to unicode,  Work on annotation/rtyper to be able to process PyPy
- Jul 14 13:10:28 <arre>	Next week: annotation/rtyper and/or implementing modules os and math, if there is enough time take the week off.
- Jul 14 13:10:41 <arre>	Blockers:  Not knowing the darker corners of the annotator/rtyper (In the process of being solved through having Samuele close by)
- Jul 14 13:10:55 <hpk>	arre: take the week of from Strakt you mean? 
- Jul 14 13:10:57 <ludal>	hpk: post?
- Jul 14 13:11:02 <stakkars>	:-)  there is a random shuffling algo in the annotator, and I got seed 49
- Jul 14 13:11:09 <hpk>	ludal: forget it,  i missed your lines, sorry
- Jul 14 13:11:22 <hpk>	stakkars: ah fine :-) 
- Jul 14 13:11:27 <arre>	Yes. I have woked too many hours as it is.
- Jul 14 13:11:46 <hpk>	ok, we got it then for now. Next topic: re-assigning/resolving 
- Jul 14 13:12:01 <hpk>	it seems that only aleale doesn't have a plan for next week
- Jul 14 13:12:15 <hpk>	i think that weakref is not a priority and we should wait a bit with cfbolz's work on GC 
- Jul 14 13:12:15 <aleale>	right
- Jul 14 13:12:26 <cfbolz>	wanted to say the same :-)
- Jul 14 13:12:33 <aleale>	indeed
- Jul 14 13:12:58 <hpk>	aleale: let's discuss possible work areas for you this off this pypy-sync meeting with Samuele and maybe others 
- Jul 14 13:13:08 <aleale>	ok
- Jul 14 13:13:10 <hpk>	generally i'd like to be signalled ahead of the meeting if one doesn't know what to work on
- Jul 14 13:13:29 <hpk>	next topic:   - fixating sprint in Hildesheim (25th-31st July)
- Jul 14 13:13:45 <hpk>	you probably all have read that the technical board thinks we should do a in-between internal sprint 
- Jul 14 13:13:56 <hpk>	the idea is 25th-31st July in Hildesheim (at my house) 
- Jul 14 13:14:15 <hpk>	who could come and who could not come? please everybody post here
- Jul 14 13:14:19 <stakkars>	yes, I thought this was decided, already
- Jul 14 13:14:39 <cfbolz>	I can, minus one day
- Jul 14 13:14:39 <stakkars>	I will order my ticket, today
- Jul 14 13:14:39 <adim>	I won't come
- Jul 14 13:14:57 <pedronis>	yes, need to organize travel
- Jul 14 13:15:01 <ludal>	can't: vacation
- Jul 14 13:15:05 <arre>	My vacation starts that week, so no.
- Jul 14 13:15:20 <aleale>	I am not sure yet, just learned about it yesterday
- Jul 14 13:15:27 <stakkars>	what about arigo, is he traveling right now?
- Jul 14 13:15:32 <hpk>	armin is going to come 
- Jul 14 13:15:36 <aleale>	will know tomorrow
- Jul 14 13:15:37 <pedronis>	he will be there
- Jul 14 13:15:57 <hpk>	ok, that means: samuele, christian, holger, armin fulltime and cfbolz (-1 day) 
- Jul 14 13:15:58 <stakkars>	I asked why he is not in themeeting.
- Jul 14 13:16:09 <hpk>	he is busy, but he sent me mail with his info before 
- Jul 14 13:16:22 <pedronis>	he is in belgium
- Jul 14 13:16:43 <pedronis>	then will be in Düsseldorf and from there to the sprint
- Jul 14 13:16:57 <stakkars>	thanks
- Jul 14 13:17:15 <stakkars>	for the sprint, we need an even number of people, as I remember :-)
- Jul 14 13:17:16 <hpk>	ok, so the 25th-31st sprint is fixed then and i will prepare it, please arrive on the 24th evening or 25th morning and mail me about accomodation wishes 
- Jul 14 13:17:42 <hpk>	i'll post some info on pypy-sprint, make sure you are subscribed there
- Jul 14 13:18:01 <hpk>	next topic: usage of issue tracker
- Jul 14 13:18:25 <hpk>	for the upcoming releases (0.6.2 and 0.7/1.0) it has been discussed that we want to use the issue tracker 
- Jul 14 13:18:43 <hpk>	it should be clear to everyone (e.g. regarding the parser issues) that it is neccessary to look there 
- Jul 14 13:18:55 <hpk>	and update the issues accordingly 
- Jul 14 13:19:12 <hpk>	also the longobject issues etc.pp. 
- Jul 14 13:19:32 <hpk>	does everyone agree about using the pypy-dev tracker in this way? 
- Jul 14 13:19:41 <aleale>	ye
- Jul 14 13:19:43 <aleale>	s
- Jul 14 13:19:54 <cfbolz>	yes
- Jul 14 13:20:05 <adim>	yes
- Jul 14 13:20:09 <ludal>	yes
- Jul 14 13:20:19 <arre>	yes
- Jul 14 13:20:42 <stakkars>	yes
- Jul 14 13:20:51 <hpk>	pedronis: you too, i guess? 
- Jul 14 13:21:05 *	hpk notes we have 9 minutes left 
- Jul 14 13:21:14 <pedronis>	yes
- Jul 14 13:21:23 <hpk>	next topic:   - list current main areas of work regarding reaching Deliverable D05.2
- Jul 14 13:21:30 <hpk>	armin sent me this info from his POV: 
- Jul 14 13:21:39 <hpk>	Progressing on translate_pypy.py.  There is a temp file
- Jul 14 13:21:39 <hpk>	pypy/translator/goal/ISSUES.txt.  Difficult to know more precisely what
- Jul 14 13:21:39 <hpk>	is left.  AFAICT we'll reach the first goal (PyPy as C ext module) any
- Jul 14 13:21:39 <hpk>	day or week now.
- Jul 14 13:22:08 <hpk>	samuele, anything you'd like to add (if not now then just to ISSUES.txt) 
- Jul 14 13:22:50 <pedronis>	we are solving issues as we seen them fromt translate_pypy
- Jul 14 13:22:58 <pedronis>	there are 14000 blocks to go
- Jul 14 13:23:09 <pedronis>	we reach some hundreds now
- Jul 14 13:23:16 <cfbolz>	oops
- Jul 14 13:23:27 <pedronis>	well, it doesn't mean much
- Jul 14 13:23:46 <pedronis>	each fix should adress more than one block
- Jul 14 13:23:55 <pedronis>	much more
- Jul 14 13:24:13 <hpk>	pedronis: ok, i suggest to add separatable issues into the ISSUES.txt for everyone to see (if they are not solved/solveable isntantly)
- Jul 14 13:24:15 <pedronis>	the only worry is a bit memory usage but hard to tell until we go trough more blocks
- Jul 14 13:24:28 <ludal>	any way we could parallelize the work ?
- Jul 14 13:24:37 <stakkars>	yes.
- Jul 14 13:24:45 <hpk>	pedronis, stakkars: can you quickly tell about the "seed" situation? 
- Jul 14 13:24:59 <stakkars>	pick a random seed not in (42, 49, samuele what's your's?)
- Jul 14 13:25:18 <pedronis>	46
- Jul 14 13:25:22 <stakkars>	set the environ variable (wait...)
- Jul 14 13:25:28 <pedronis>	RTYPERSEED
- Jul 14 13:25:41 <hpk>	let's put this info into ISSUES.txt please, stakkars, can you do that? 
- Jul 14 13:25:43 <stakkars>	yep! And this gives you a different order of problems.
- Jul 14 13:25:49 <stakkars>	sure
- Jul 14 13:25:55 <hpk>	ok, next topic (5 minutes left) 
- Jul 14 13:26:03 <stakkars>	4
- Jul 14 13:26:07 <hpk>	Heidelberg sprint planning status (now: 15-22th August !!!)
- Jul 14 13:26:16 <cfbolz>	why did the date change?
- Jul 14 13:26:25 <hpk>	you mailed the 15th-22nd august for the sprint-date 
- Jul 14 13:26:29 <hpk>	in your last mail to me 
- Jul 14 13:26:31 <cfbolz>	hum
- Jul 14 13:26:43 <hpk>	you are the person who needs to reserve the rooms :-)
- Jul 14 13:26:58 <arre>	Bad timing. My vacation ends 21/8.
- Jul 14 13:27:11 <cfbolz>	it doesn't matter much for the rooms, I think I did a mistake in the mail to you :-(
- Jul 14 13:27:16 <cfbolz>	sorry for the confusion
- Jul 14 13:27:25 <cfbolz>	(I can get a room for the whole of August)
- Jul 14 13:27:59 <hpk>	cfbolz: ok, so it stays 22nd (monday) -29th August (monday) ? 
- Jul 14 13:28:07 <stakkars>	I have a fixed date on 24.09. in Kiel and on 27.08., everything else is fine.
- Jul 14 13:28:18 <cfbolz>	hpk: I guess so
- Jul 14 13:28:29 <hpk>	cfbolz: let's fix it until monday next week
- Jul 14 13:28:34 <hpk>	is that possible for you? 
- Jul 14 13:28:46 <cfbolz>	I can fix it immediately, I just have to know
- Jul 14 13:28:50 <hpk>	stakkars: the 27th August would be in the sprint, but maybe you can just travel a day? 
- Jul 14 13:29:30 <ludal>	for me it's fine 22-29 aug
- Jul 14 13:29:41 <hpk>	ludal: great!
- Jul 14 13:29:43 <stakkars>	yes, I have to go to a big party, my ex-wife becomes 50
- Jul 14 13:29:50 <hpk>	aleale, arre, pedronis: for you it's fine as well i guess 
- Jul 14 13:29:57 <pedronis>	yes
- Jul 14 13:30:01 <aleale>	I am happy with the 22-29 too
- Jul 14 13:30:13 <stakkars>	all fine with me
- Jul 14 13:30:14 <hpk>	i am going to contact Michael Hudson 
- Jul 14 13:30:19 <arre>	Would work.
- Jul 14 13:30:22 <hpk>	great, this finishes this meeting! 
- Jul 14 13:30:31 <hpk>	thanks for coming, see you next week latest!

minute/pypy-sync-07-21-2005.txt

-=============================================
-pypy-sync developer meeting 21st July 2005
-=============================================
-
-Attendees:  
-         Anders Chrigstroem, Samuele Pedroni, Adrien Di Mascio, 
-         Ludovic Aubry, Carl Friedrich Bolz, Holger Krekel (minutes), 
-         Richard Emslie (partly)
-
-with pre-sent info: Anders Lehmann
-missing/without info: Christian Tismer, Armin Rigo (still holiday?)
-
-Regular Topics 
-====================
-
-- roll call. holger opens the meeting. 
-
-- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info). 
-  All Attendees submitted activity reports (see `IRC-Log`_ 
-  at the end and 'LAST/NEXT/BLOCKERS' entries in particular)
-
-- resolve conflicts/blockers
-  No direct conflicts were discovered. Main "blocker" appears to
-  be vacations. 
-
-Topics of the week
-===================
-
-Heidelberg Sprint Planning Status 
--------------------------------------
-
-Carl reports that the sprint room is fixed for the duration
-from 22nd to 29th of August at the university of Heidelberg. 
-He also started a `Heidelberg sprint announcement`_.  The 
-Hildesheim crew should finalize it next week and send it out. 
-There is a bit of a problem with network connectivity because
-the "Rechenzentrum" mandates VPN-clients.  Carl will check into
-that but would enjoy help! 
-
-Accomodation wise there is the possibility to rent a room
-from a flat in Heidelberg. That would cost around 300 Euros. 
-Richard is interested in that.  Others are thinking about it.
-Everbody interested should send Carl a mail, he might even
-be able to get two rooms like this. (Hotels are usually
-quite expensive in Heidelberg). 
-
-.. _`Heidelberg sprint announcement`: http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?extradoc/sprintinfo/Heidelberg-sprint.html
-
-compliance tests failures after 2.4.1 merge: how/when to tackle?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-Holger notices that after the 2.4.1 merge only roughly 50% of the 
-compliance `tests are passing`_.   Samuele thinks that fixing them 
-requires a lot of work, approximately one week.  The attendees 
-decide that the Hildesheim Sprint crew should decide about a 
-strategy of how to tackle this problem.  Mails will be sent
-to pypy-dev and pypy-funding (because it touches important 
-EU issues). 
-
-.. _`tests are passing`: http://codespeak.net/~hpk/pypy-testresult/
-
-0.6.2 release: status / when do we think to actually do it? Do we still?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-We have interpreter documentation and the parser situation is improving
-(running the parser on top of 2.3 yet providing 2.4 semantics). 
-The main blocker for the release is the compliance test situation. 
-Therefore further discussion/decisions are postponed until we
-have a strategy regarding the compliance tests (see previous topic). 
-
-re-assigning tasks (related to NEXT activities)
------------------------------------------------------
-
-Holger notes that the hildesheim sprint crew might interfere 
-with the Parser (ludal) and os-level implementations (aleale). 
-The hildesheim sprint crew should be left free to work on 
-the issues as it sees fit.  For people outside the sprint
-it is recommended to work in short-commit cycles to avoid
-conflicts and to follow the commits from the sprint. 
-The sprint group will try to provide info on pypy-dev or
-on IRC. 
-
-Closing 
-------------------
-
-Holger closes the meeting in time at 13:30pm. 
-
-.. _`IRC-log`: 
-
-Here is the full IRC log:: 
-
- **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 21 12:19:28 2005
- Jul 21 13:02:38 <hpk>	ok, we'll start anyway, although there appear some people to be missing
- Jul 21 13:02:59 -->	arre (~ac@1-1-5-33a.gfa.gbg.bostream.se) has joined #pypy-sync
- Jul 21 13:03:18 <cfbolz>	ok
- Jul 21 13:03:35 <hpk>	everbody ready to start? 
- Jul 21 13:03:43 <cfbolz>	yes
- Jul 21 13:03:48 <arre>	I am.
- Jul 21 13:03:59 <pedronis>	yes
- Jul 21 13:04:06 <adim>	I am
- Jul 21 13:04:16 <hpk>	here is the agenda (posted already yetserday to pypy-funding):
- Jul 21 13:04:20 <hpk>	- roll call. holger opens the meeting.
- Jul 21 13:04:20 <hpk>	- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info).
- Jul 21 13:04:20 <hpk>	- resolve conflicts/blockers
- Jul 21 13:04:20 <hpk>	- Heidelberg Sprint Planning Status
- Jul 21 13:04:20 <hpk>	- compliance tests failures after 2.4.1 merge: how/when to tackle?
- Jul 21 13:04:20 <hpk>	- 0.6.2 release: status / when do we think to actually do it? Do we still?
- Jul 21 13:04:20 <hpk>	- re-assigning tasks (related to NEXT activities)
- Jul 21 13:04:46 <hpk>	activity reports: i suggest the following order: hpk,aleale,ludal,adim,pedronis,arre,cfbolz,
- Jul 21 13:05:05 <hpk>	LAST: interpreter documentation, organizing hildesheim sprint, codespeak migration planning, mentoring so
- Jul 21 13:05:05 <hpk>	me os-level commits, fixing py test bugs
- Jul 21 13:05:05 <hpk>	NEXT: Hildesheim-Sprint orga + hacking, EU issues
- Jul 21 13:05:05 <hpk>	BLOCKERS: too many things going on
- Jul 21 13:05:16 ---	You are now known as aleale
- Jul 21 13:05:23 <aleale>	LAST: working on posix (for pypy), started on math
- Jul 21 13:05:23 <aleale>	NEXT: finish posix, and math ? (will try the lib-python tests)
- Jul 21 13:05:23 <aleale>	BLOCKERS: need to understand exceptions better (interpreter level, annotation of, etc), a wedding, an immanent move to Germany
- Jul 21 13:05:28 ---	You are now known as hpk
- Jul 21 13:05:31 <ludal>	last week : parser work, pysymbol and pytoken, switching to using integers for rule names instead of strings
- Jul 21 13:05:31 <ludal>	next week : vacation + eventually resolving annotation problems + astbuilder to make annotation work further
- Jul 21 13:05:31 <ludal>	blocker : vacation ;)
- Jul 21 13:05:42 <adim>	LAST: parser's annotation / astbuilder
- Jul 21 13:05:42 <adim>	NEXT: teach a course
- Jul 21 13:05:42 <adim>	blockers: no real one
- Jul 21 13:05:57 <pedronis>	Last: bug fixing in annotator and rtyper, progress rtyping PyPy adding rtyper features, implemented hook to control rtyping order, integrated suggestion to continue rtyping even after errors
- Jul 21 13:05:59 <pedronis>	Next: sprint (we are down to 57 rtyping problems with the translation snapshot)
- Jul 21 13:06:00 <pedronis>	Issues: tried to annotate the trunk, now annotation finishes but quite some involved SomeObject problems related to parser code
- Jul 21 13:06:47 <hpk>	arre, cfbolz next
- Jul 21 13:07:15 <arre>	Last week: annotation/rtyper work and learning more about their internals.
- Jul 21 13:07:26 <arre>	Next week: Vacation until Heidelberg.
- Jul 21 13:07:35 <arre>	Blockers: None at the moment.
- Jul 21 13:07:39 <cfbolz>	LAST: finalized sprint room, trying to get cheap accomodation, looking for the cheapest publich transport tickets
- Jul 21 13:07:39 <cfbolz>	NEXT: checking network connectivity in the sprint room, Hildesheim sprint
- Jul 21 13:07:39 <cfbolz>	BLOCKERS: not much, still a bit own stuff to do
- Jul 21 13:08:03 <hpk>	ok, there appear to be no conflicts
- Jul 21 13:08:16 <hpk>	except that the hildesheim sprint could provide conflicts
- Jul 21 13:08:24 <hpk>	(e.g. os-level functions or the parser situation) 
- Jul 21 13:08:34 <hpk>	ludal: before you leave to holiday could you send a mail to pypy-dev about the status? 
- Jul 21 13:08:43 <hpk>	(or post it to the issue) 
- Jul 21 13:08:59 <hpk>	this way the hildesheim group knows where it could start to work if it wants to
- Jul 21 13:09:23 <ludal>	sure, actually I'm not leaving paris so I'll be available online from time to time and hopefully following developpements of the sprint
- Jul 21 13:09:36 <hpk>	ludal: great, ok
- Jul 21 13:09:51 <hpk>	next topic: heidelberg status, carl? 
- Jul 21 13:10:08 <cfbolz>	the room is secured from 22nd to 29th
- Jul 21 13:10:10 <cfbolz>	!
- Jul 21 13:10:22 <cfbolz>	have to check network connectivity: it is possible that we need some sort of VPN client to access the network
- Jul 21 13:10:38 <cfbolz>	I'm trying to find student rooms
- Jul 21 13:10:52 -->	rxe (~rxe@client-82-2-57-5.brnt.adsl.virgin.net) has joined #pypy-sync
- Jul 21 13:10:54 <cfbolz>	if there is enough interest
- Jul 21 13:11:08 <hpk>	network connectivity: we should have our own router/machine that makes the VPN transparent if possible
- Jul 21 13:11:28 <cfbolz>	yes, if someone helps me with that
- Jul 21 13:11:52 <cfbolz>	the problem is that the local admins from the rechenzentrum are kind of inflexible
- Jul 21 13:12:11 <cfbolz>	so I would have to do it myself
- Jul 21 13:12:22 <hpk>	cfbolz: i see, can you try to make your own laptop work? 
- Jul 21 13:12:29 <cfbolz>	yes, of course
- Jul 21 13:12:43 <hpk>	i saw you also checked in a sprint announcement
- Jul 21 13:12:49 <hpk>	we should finalize this next week and send it out
- Jul 21 13:12:54 <cfbolz>	indeed
- Jul 21 13:13:14 <hpk>	cfbolz: is the 200-300 euro room still a concrete thing? 
- Jul 21 13:13:17 <cfbolz>	yes
- Jul 21 13:13:26 <hpk>	so let's try to decide here
- Jul 21 13:13:47 <hpk>	cfbolz has a room in a living group (WG) that costs 200-300 euro and two people could sleep there for the sprint week
- Jul 21 13:14:03 <cfbolz>	I could maybe even get two rooms
- Jul 21 13:14:07 <cfbolz>	not sure yet
- Jul 21 13:14:30 <hpk>	is anyone basically interested? (hotels are kind of expensive in heidelberg)
- Jul 21 13:14:44 <rxe>	sounds good 
- Jul 21 13:15:18 <cfbolz>	another question is how we pay for that
- Jul 21 13:15:24 <rxe>	(that means i am interested)
- Jul 21 13:15:37 <hpk>	(rxe: if you want to send your activity reports, just paste your three LAST/NEXT/BLOCKERS lines in)
- Jul 21 13:15:51 <hpk>	arre, pedronis, ludal: anyone of you interested? 
- Jul 21 13:16:28 <rxe>	LAST: dummy Opaque type in llvm2
- Jul 21 13:16:28 <rxe>	NEXT: nothing planned
- Jul 21 13:16:28 <rxe>	BLOCKERS: nothing planned
- Jul 21 13:16:34 <hpk>	cfbolz: i think the people using the room should pay, maybe they can get a receipt? 
- Jul 21 13:17:10 <cfbolz>	ok, I can check that
- Jul 21 13:17:26 <rxe>	well 300 euros seems reasonable priced for one person
- Jul 21 13:17:58 <hpk>	arre, pedronis, ludal: ok, this is lasting too long, write cfbolz a mail if you are interested
- Jul 21 13:17:58 <cfbolz>	you could even stay there longer and visit heidelberg a bit :-)
- Jul 21 13:18:31 <cfbolz>	I guess the hardest HD sprint issues are solved, now that we have the room?
- Jul 21 13:18:39 <ludal>	hpk: sure, can't decide now
- Jul 21 13:18:59 <hpk>	cfbolz: yes, the sprint is fixed 22nd-29th, announcement next week
- Jul 21 13:19:23 <hpk>	next topic: compliance tests failures after 2.4.1 merge: how/when to tackle?
- Jul 21 13:19:50 <hpk>	any opinions on this? (i guess you all noticed that we have only ~50% compliance tests passing)
- Jul 21 13:20:17 <hpk>	http://codespeak.net/~hpk/pypy-testresult/ for reference
- Jul 21 13:20:31 <rxe>	cfbolz: where is nearest airport (sorry - next topic)?
- Jul 21 13:20:34 <--	ludal (~ludal@logilab.net2.nerim.net) has left #pypy-sync
- Jul 21 13:21:00 <hpk>	rxe: let cfbolz add this info to the announcement
- Jul 21 13:21:01 <cfbolz>	rxe: frankfurt I guess
- Jul 21 13:21:01 -->	ludal (~ludal@logilab.net2.nerim.net) has joined #pypy-sync
- Jul 21 13:21:15 <rxe>	ok - thanksx
- Jul 21 13:21:23 *	hpk notices 9 minutes left
- Jul 21 13:21:46 <pedronis>	hpk: fixing the tests is a lot of work
- Jul 21 13:22:25 <pedronis>	something around a week
- Jul 21 13:22:59 <hpk>	i suggest that we task the hildesheim sprint crew to discuss this and come up with a strategy when/how to tackle the problem
- Jul 21 13:23:24 <pedronis>	yes, I don't think we can decide something now
- Jul 21 13:23:28 <hpk>	everbody ok with this?
- Jul 21 13:23:31 <cfbolz>	yep
- Jul 21 13:23:34 <rxe>	yes
- Jul 21 13:23:52 <adim>	ok with me
- Jul 21 13:23:53 <arre>	yes
- Jul 21 13:24:02 <ludal>	ok
- Jul 21 13:24:32 <hpk>	ok, we will send according infos to pypy-dev and possibly pypy-funding (it's a critical EU issue in some ways)
- Jul 21 13:24:47 <hpk>	next topic: 0.6.2 release: status / when do we think to actually do it? Do we still?
- Jul 21 13:24:59 <hpk>	this is a follow up on the last week's topic
- Jul 21 13:25:03 <hpk>	interpreter documentation is now mostly there
- Jul 21 13:25:13 <hpk>	the parser is getting there
- Jul 21 13:25:27 <hpk>	ludal: does the parser/compiler now run on top of Python 2.3 providing 2.4 semantics? 
- Jul 21 13:25:48 <hpk>	(my limited manual tests seem to indicate that it does)
- Jul 21 13:26:01 <ludal>	mostly, you'll have to point out if you see problems
- Jul 21 13:26:30 <hpk>	ok, then the main blocker for a 0.6.2 release is the compliance/test situation
- Jul 21 13:27:00 <hpk>	so we should re-discuss it next week (after the hildesheim crew dicussed it) if nobody objects
- Jul 21 13:27:05 <pedronis>	yes
- Jul 21 13:27:16 <adim>	ok
- Jul 21 13:27:42 <cfbolz>	I don't
- Jul 21 13:27:44 <hpk>	ok, then last (somewhat optional) topic: - re-assigning tasks (related to NEXT activities)
- Jul 21 13:28:33 <hpk>	like mentioned earlier, i think that the hildesheim crew might interfer with the os-level calls (aleale) and parser (ludal) developments
- Jul 21 13:29:15 <hpk>	i think that the hildesheim crew should be allowed to work on whatever it wants and try to signal via IRC or pypy-dev/commits
- Jul 21 13:29:16 <ludal>	ok
- Jul 21 13:29:44 <hpk>	so it's especially important to have short commit cycles to avoid conflicts
- Jul 21 13:30:02 <hpk>	(i.e. don't work for three days before checking something in)
- Jul 21 13:30:28 <hpk>	ok, it's 13:30 ... closing time for the meeting
- Jul 21 13:30:34 <hpk>	thanks for coming!
- Jul 21 13:31:09 <cfbolz>	see you!
- Jul 21 13:31:21 <rxe>	bye
- Jul 21 13:31:24 <hpk>	see you!
- Jul 21 13:31:27 <adim>	Bye
- Jul 21 13:32:28 <--	rxe (~rxe@client-82-2-57-5.brnt.adsl.virgin.net) has left #pypy-sync
- **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 21 13:32:33 2005
-

minute/pypy-sync-07-28-2005.txt

-=============================================
-pypy-sync developer meeting 28th July 2005
-=============================================
-
-Attendees:  
-         Samuele Pedroni, Armin Rigo, Anders Lehmann, 
-         Holger Krekel (minutes), Richard Emslie 
-         Christian Tismer, Eric van Riet Paap (posted
-         info after the meeting)
-         
-Regular Topics 
-====================
-
-- roll call. holger opens the meeting. 
-
-- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info). 
-  All Attendees submitted activity reports (see `IRC-Log`_ 
-  at the end and 'LAST/NEXT/BLOCKERS' entries in particular)
-
-- resolve conflicts/blockers
-  No conflicts were discovered. 
-
-Topics of the week
-===================
-
-codespeak migration planned early august 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-There is a migration of codespeak.net to new hardware and
-a new hosting environment planned beginning of August. 
-Make sure that you are subscribe to `codespeak announce`_ list. 
-
-.. _`codespeak announce`: http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/codespeak-ann
-
-re-assigning tasks (related to NEXT activities)
------------------------------------------------------
-
-none. 
-
-Closing 
-------------------
-
-closed at 1:10 (because we were mostly sprint-people on 
-the pypy-sync channel anyway) 
-
-.. _`IRC-log`: 
-
-Here is the full IRC log:: 
-    hpk well, ok, i guess we start (and make it quick)
-    hpk here is the agenda: (...)
-    hpk roll call
-    hpk activity reports
-    hpk resolve conflicts/blockers
-    hpk codespeak migration
-    hpk re/assigning work tasks
-    hpk let's start with activity reports in this order hpk,aleale,arigo,pedronis,rxe,stakkars
-    hpk LAST: hildesheim2-sprint orga + participation
-    hpk NEXT: hildesheim2-sprint, codespeak migration
-    hpk BLOCKERS: too many issues and unanwsered mail
-    aleale  last week: worked on math (superseeded by the sprint), compliance tests
-    aleale  next: compliance tests
-    aleale  blockers: Mac os x unfamiliarity
-    arigo   DONE: fixed remaining TyperErrors, helped in removing faking
-    arigo   NEXT: try translating PyPy
-    arigo   BLOCKERS: -
-    pedronis    Last: work on rtyping PyPy, sprint
-    pedronis    Next: sprint, after depends on sprint results
-    pedronis    Issues: umphishness
-    rxe LAST: sprint: start getting rid of fake files / various importing problems
-    rxe NEXT: more sprint stuff
-    rxe BLOCKERS: none
-    -->|    __alex (~alex@141.22.64.4) has joined #pypy-sync
-    stakkars    DONE: fixing many bugs, pyc file stuff, which turns out to be slow
-    stakkars    NEXT: continue on translation (and maybe write interplevel marshal in spare time)
-    stakkars    BLOCKERS: we have waytoo much applevel code, which strikes back, now.
-    hpk ok, then it appears we have no conflicts
-    hpk so only topic is: codspeak migration
-    hpk most of you know alreada that beginning of august there is a codespeak hardware/hosting migration planned
-    hpk (make sure you are subscribed to codespeak-ann (announce list)
-    hpk then: that ends the ritual this time!
-    hpk see you next week
-    aleale  bye
-
-    ericvrp2    hi richard, did I miss the action?
-    rxe yes - short and sweet. :-) do you have 3 lines to paste?
-    ericvrp2    Last/current: holiday/llvm exception handling
-    ericvrp2    Next: impl. some llvm external functions
-    ericvrp2    Blockers: none
-

minute/pypy-sync-08-04-2005.txt

-=============================================
-pypy-sync developer meeting 4th August 2005
-=============================================
-
-Attendees::
-         Samuele Pedroni, 
-         Adrien Di Mascio, 
-         Carl Friedrich Bolz, 
-         Armin Rigo, 
-         Samuele Pedroni,
-         Anders Lehmann,
-         Niklaus Heidimann,
-         Eric van Riet Paap,
-         Holger Krekel (minutes/moderation)
-
-with pre info::
-        Richard Emslie, Ludovic Aubry, 
-
-Regular Topics 
-====================
-
-- roll call. holger opens the meeting. 
-
-- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info). 
-  All Attendees submitted activity reports (see `IRC-Log`_ 
-  at the end and 'LAST/NEXT/BLOCKERS' entries in particular)
-
-- resolve conflicts/blockers
-  No direct conflicts were discovered. Compliancy work was
-  discussed under its own topic. 
-
-Topics of the week
-===================
-
-"regular" more closed sprints? 
----------------------------------
-
-In a private conversation Bea asked Holger how the developer group
-thinks of the hildesheim2-sprint type (which was similar
-to the Pre-EP sprint in Gotenburg).  A question is: 
-do we think we want to regularly do sprints where we
-only invite developers who are at least half up to 
-speed with PyPy?  Should sprints around conferences always
-be completely open and some of the sprints in between 
-then possibly more closed? 
-
-The group agrees that the actual issue is not so much about
-being "closed" per se but about the active developers being
-able to pair among themselves.  Also it is agreed that interested 
-developers, especially ones close to the sprint venue, should not
-be excluded even from restricted sprints.  Around conferences
-we always want to invite and prepare for developers completely 
-new to PyPy, whereas between we'd sometime like to 
-restrict the sprints to active developers.   It is also
-clear that we don't want to go against the open source
-spirit of allowing interested people to participate. 
-
-0.6.2 release: dropping the idea and just going for 0.7 ...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-It has basically been decided by the hildesheim2 sprint group
-that Heidelberg should tackle a 0.7 self-contained PyPy version. 
-It seems that we then probably want to drop the idea of a 
-0.6.2 release.  But the release goal for 0.6.2, namely
-the compliancy goal of again reaching 90% compliancy 
-for our 2.4.1 based tree, should then be shifted to 0.7. 
-
-The attendants quickly agreed that we drop the 0.6.2 release
-and go for 0.7 directly, including the 0.6.2 release goals. 
-
-fixing compliancy bugs 
-------------------------------------
-
-It has been decided by the hildesheim2 sprint group 
-that we want to have a text file in lib-python 
-that lists the problems with failing test modules
-so that we can share analysis. 
-
-After a short discussion we reach agreement on 
-
-a) we add progress information regarding single compliancy 
-   tests to lib-python/failure_list.txt.  If anyone works 
-   longer on a compliancy test then it should be noted
-   in the file to avoid duplication of work. 
-
-b) fixing a compliancy test should usually be accompanied 
-   by adding a small test in our pypy/ hierarchy. Only
-   if the test is too obscure to be reproduced nicely 
-   it is ok to not add such a test. 
-  
-c) we may need to prepare a bit that we count the failing/suceeding
-   compliancy tests more correctly.  This can probably still 
-   be done at the heidelberg sprint if neccessary. 
-
-Closing 
-------------------
-
-Holger closes the meeting in time at 13:30pm. 
-
-.. _`IRC-log`: 
-
-Here is the full IRC log:: 
-
-    Aug 04 12:54:29 -->	You are now talking on #pypy-sync
-    Aug 04 12:58:42 <arigo>	should we start?  (we're 6 minutes behind already)
-    Aug 04 12:58:53 <hpk>	ups, my clock says 12:58
-    Aug 04 12:59:00 <hpk>	sorry
-    Aug 04 12:59:04 <hpk>	then sure, let's start right ahead
-    Aug 04 12:59:06 <hpk>	and hi
-    Aug 04 12:59:09 <cfbolz>	hi!
-    Aug 04 12:59:11 <ericvrp2>	hi
-    Aug 04 12:59:16 <arigo>	hi :-)
-    Aug 04 12:59:16 <pedronis>	hi
-    Aug 04 12:59:17 <adim>	Hi
-    Aug 04 12:59:20 <nik>	hi as well
-    Aug 04 12:59:36 <hpk>	ok, let's go, here is the agenda:
-    Aug 04 12:59:44 <hpk>	- roll call.
-    Aug 04 12:59:44 <hpk>	- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info).
-    Aug 04 12:59:44 <hpk>	- resolve conflicts/blockers
-    Aug 04 12:59:44 <hpk>	* Topics of the week *
-    Aug 04 12:59:44 <hpk>	- regularly more closed sprints?
-    Aug 04 12:59:44 <hpk>	- 0.6.2 release: dropping the idea and just going for 0.7?!
-    Aug 04 12:59:44 <hpk>	- fixing compliancy bugs
-    Aug 04 12:59:44 <hpk>	- (re)assignments
-    Aug 04 13:00:04 <hpk>	(i will be pretending, my clock is right, so it's exactly 13:00 now :-) 
-    Aug 04 13:00:11 <hpk>	activity reports, i supposed the following order:
-    Aug 04 13:00:11 <cfbolz>	:-)
-    Aug 04 13:00:22 <hpk>	rxe,hpk,ericvrp2,nik,adim,arigo,aleale,cfbolz,pedronis,adim
-    Aug 04 13:00:28 ---	You are now known as rxe
-    Aug 04 13:00:36 <rxe>	LAST: llvm work with Eric (pbc, operations, bpnn, richards, readability of source
-    Aug 04 13:00:36 <rxe>	NEXT: would be nice to translate pypy itself - not too far off - but will probably be busy wit
-    Aug 04 13:00:36 <rxe>	h other stuff
-    Aug 04 13:00:36 <rxe>	BLOCKERS: none
-    Aug 04 13:00:41 ---	You are now known as hpk
-    Aug 04 13:00:50 <ericvrp2>	LAST: exception handling in llvm backend
-    Aug 04 13:00:51 <ericvrp2>	NEXT: operator exceptions (divzero,etc)
-    Aug 04 13:00:51 <ericvrp2>	BLOCKERS: a lot of XXX in llvm backend, might need to refactor first
-    Aug 04 13:00:55 <hpk>	LAST: hildesheim2-sprint + after-work/reporting, small fixes + cleanup here and there
-    Aug 04 13:00:55 <hpk>	NEXT: codespeak-migration, (maybe) improve test-report/translation tools
-    Aug 04 13:00:55 <hpk>	BLOCKERS: time pressure regarding migration
-    Aug 04 13:01:02 <nik>	LAST: integrating _sre and array
-    Aug 04 13:01:10 <nik>	NEXT: app-level optimizations for _sre, some array improvements. after that (= next week) i'm probably be free for work on general compliance.
-    Aug 04 13:01:14 <nik>	BLOCKERS: -
-    Aug 04 13:01:27 <adim>	LAST: gave a course 
-    Aug 04 13:01:27 <adim>	NEXT: continue astbuilder (only since today)
-    Aug 04 13:01:27 <adim>	BLOCKERS: no really blockers, byt small problems for some isntructions
-    Aug 04 13:01:32 ---	adim is now known as luda1
-    Aug 04 13:01:39 <luda1>	LAST: vacation
-    Aug 04 13:01:39 <luda1>	NEXT: vacation
-    Aug 04 13:01:39 <luda1>	BLOCKERS: none
-    Aug 04 13:01:45 ---	luda1 is now known as adim
-    Aug 04 13:01:52 <arigo>	LAST: fixing bugs in translate_pypy; getting a stand-alone executable instead of an ext module
-    Aug 04 13:01:52 <arigo>	NEXT: clean-ups (e.g. the Translator class); work on compliance tests; more bugs shown by translate_pypy
-    Aug 04 13:01:52 <arigo>	BLOCKERS: -
-    Aug 04 13:01:56 <aleale>	prev: Compliance tests, getting settled in at DFKI
-    Aug 04 13:01:58 <aleale>	next: Compliance tests
-    Aug 04 13:01:59 <aleale>	blockers: none
-    Aug 04 13:02:07 <cfbolz>	LAST: Hildesheim sprint, lltypesimulation on top of memory simulator, looking ways to integrate lltypesimulation with llinterp
-    Aug 04 13:02:07 <cfbolz>	NEXT: integrating lltypesimulation into lltinterp, enhancing llinterp to be able to use simulated GC (finding roots)
-    Aug 04 13:02:07 <cfbolz>	BLOCKERS: none
-    Aug 04 13:02:30 <pedronis>	Last: sprint, fix obscure(tm) intermittent annotator problem, fix what prevented "import code" to succeed
-    Aug 04 13:02:32 <pedronis>	Next: work on open issues
-    Aug 04 13:02:33 <pedronis>	Issues: when we try very clever approaches we should try to think of and add sanity checks
-    Aug 04 13:03:00 <hpk>	ok, that's activity reports, there are no immediate blockers ... 
-    Aug 04 13:03:15 <hpk>	however, we should talk a bit about how to approach compliancy under its own topic
-    Aug 04 13:03:46 <hpk>	so on to: regularly doing more closed sprints?
-    Aug 04 13:03:56 <hpk>	Bea mailed me and there were discussions here and there
-    Aug 04 13:04:06 <hpk>	what do people think about having two types of sprints 
-    Aug 04 13:04:22 <hpk>	like one completely open and more "closed"? 
-    Aug 04 13:04:49 <cfbolz>	how closed would "closed" be?
-    Aug 04 13:05:03 <aleale>	I think I only have tried the "closed" one
-    Aug 04 13:05:29 <hpk>	cfbolz: i'd suggest to define closed as "enough room for the active developers to pair with each other"
-    Aug 04 13:05:56 <hpk>	because i think that is really the issue, the more newbies or not-up-to-speed people the less the active developers can pair with each other
-    Aug 04 13:06:01 <cfbolz>	sounds good :-)
-    Aug 04 13:06:08 <arigo>	yes
-    Aug 04 13:06:28 <cfbolz>	hildesheim was very productive
-    Aug 04 13:07:04 <hpk>	any other agreeing/disagreeing opinions on this? 
-    Aug 04 13:07:48 <adim>	Keeping sprints open around conferences seems a good idea, but having more "closed" ones around "deadlines" should be possible too
-    Aug 04 13:07:56 <ericvrp2>	I think that it goes somewhat against the opensource idea
-    Aug 04 13:08:19 <cfbolz>	not really. depends on definition of "active developers"
-    Aug 04 13:08:21 <ericvrp2>	I would suggest at least 1-2 days for people that might live nearby and want to get the feeling
-    Aug 04 13:08:33 <hpk>	ericvrp2: i see your point
-    Aug 04 13:09:03 <hpk>	for example, i am not worried about heidelberg, because there are quite a lot of people registered that know PyPy reasonably well
-    Aug 04 13:09:28 <hpk>	so if we had 2-4 newbies showing up, that should be quite ok
-    Aug 04 13:09:54 <cfbolz>	so by your definition it would even be a closed sprint :-)
-    Aug 04 13:10:04 <hpk>	cfbolz: psst! :-)
-    Aug 04 13:11:07 <cfbolz>	no, I agree. Open would mean something like after EP where really lots of people showed up rather spontaneously
-    Aug 04 13:11:08 <hpk>	ok, i would like to summarize that the general opinion is that closed sprints are ok, but we want to be careful to a) not do them to often  b) not harshly exclude interested developers c) look that we don't go against the open-source spirit
-    Aug 04 13:11:19 <arigo>	makes sense to always allow nearby people to show up.  We should only recommend to other people to fly to an "open" sprint if they have to fly anyway
-    Aug 04 13:11:37 <adim>	seems good
-    Aug 04 13:12:01 <ericvrp2>	fine!
-    Aug 04 13:12:11 <arigo>	ok for me.
-    Aug 04 13:12:46 <hpk>	nik: does it also make sense to you? 
-    Aug 04 13:13:08 <nik>	yep, fine with me
-    Aug 04 13:13:32 <hpk>	pedronis, aleale: i presume you don't object either (until you do)
-    Aug 04 13:13:50 <aleale>	correct
-    Aug 04 13:14:06 *	hpk 's clock is 13:14 now
-    Aug 04 13:14:20 <hpk>	next topic: 0.6.2 release: dropping the idea and just going for 0.7 ...
-    Aug 04 13:14:27 <hpk>	it's probably uncontroversial
-    Aug 04 13:14:37 <hpk>	but i want to follow up on earlier discussions/decisions
-    Aug 04 13:14:54 <hpk>	i guess that we don't go for any 0.6 release anymore and directly tackle 0.7 at heidelberg
-    Aug 04 13:15:07 <hpk>	everybody fine with this?
-    Aug 04 13:15:11 <aleale>	yes
-    Aug 04 13:15:16 <nik>	what would have been the focus of 0.6.2?
-    Aug 04 13:15:29 <cfbolz>	switch to CPython 2.4.1
-    Aug 04 13:15:42 <nik>	i see
-    Aug 04 13:15:44 <hpk>	nik: compliance, move to 2.4.1 and the parser running on top of cpython both 2.4 and 2.3
-    Aug 04 13:16:09 <hpk>	those goals would be shifted to 0.7
-    Aug 04 13:16:32 <arigo>	agreed
-    Aug 04 13:16:38 <pedronis>	yes
-    Aug 04 13:16:50 <ericvrp2>	ok
-    Aug 04 13:16:54 <adim>	ok with this
-    Aug 04 13:17:00 <cfbolz>	I'm fine with that
-    Aug 04 13:17:08 <hpk>	great, then the next topic (we still have 13 minutes according to my clock)
-    Aug 04 13:17:18 <hpk>	Plans for fixing compliancy bugs
-    Aug 04 13:17:49 <hpk>	there now is a first incomplete text file failure_list.txt in lib-p�ython
-    Aug 04 13:18:25 <hpk>	the question is a bit a) how we distribute the tasks/analysis
-    Aug 04 13:18:43 <hpk>	b) how we tackle fixing compliancy issues (adding tests or not?)
-    Aug 04 13:19:06 <hpk>	c) do we urgently need to count differently then by failing test file? 
-    Aug 04 13:19:22 <arigo>	a) I propose that whoever starts seriously looking at a test, says so in the failure_list.txt
-    Aug 04 13:19:52 <arigo>	and then he follows up there too when he found the problem, and finally says if/when the problem is fixed or if he can't fix it
-    Aug 04 13:20:38 <arigo>	b) let's add tests to our own suite unless they are really too obscure
-    Aug 04 13:20:57 <arigo>	c) I personally don't care too much about counting tests differently
-    Aug 04 13:21:13 <cfbolz>	arigo: but the EU might :-)
-    Aug 04 13:22:01 <arigo>	the revision xxx before the 2.4.1 switch passed 90% of tests
-    Aug 04 13:22:01 <hpk>	cfbolz: but counting a whole test file just containing one failure as a complete failure is certainly "good for the EU" :-)
-    Aug 04 13:22:13 <nik>	do they mandate a figure, like 95% compliancy?
-    Aug 04 13:22:20 <hpk>	nik: we promised 90% compliancy
-    Aug 04 13:22:23 <cfbolz>	hpk: of course :-)
-    Aug 04 13:23:03 <hpk>	arigo: i agree to a) and b) but regarding c): i think we should prepare for counting differently before heidelberg - just in case
-    Aug 04 13:23:14 <aleale>	Lets wait until Heidelberg and see if it is needed 
-    Aug 04 13:23:55 <arigo>	hpk: ok
-    Aug 04 13:24:00 <cfbolz>	yes, but armin's point is valid as well: no matter how we count, it's annoying that a lot of tests fail now that passed once
-    Aug 04 13:24:15 <hpk>	cfbolz: i am not even sure about that: 2.4.1 has maybe just added tests? 
-    Aug 04 13:24:36 <cfbolz>	maybe
-    Aug 04 13:24:40 <nik>	that may be true
-    Aug 04 13:24:44 <nik>	i noticed several times
-    Aug 04 13:24:49 <nik>	that stuff isn't tested in CPython
-    Aug 04 13:24:49 <ericvrp2>	counting differently sound alot like early optimization to me
-    Aug 04 13:25:26 <hpk>	ericvrp2: well, we are really counting wrong currently
-    Aug 04 13:26:02 <hpk>	ericvrp2: consider one test file with 10000 tests all failing, and one test file with 1 test passing -> compkliancy 50% 
-    Aug 04 13:26:52 <cfbolz>	although most of the time it's really the other way round right now
-    Aug 04 13:26:54 <ericvrp2>	hpk: I agree with you, but changing that now (unless 5 minutes work) doesn't sound very productive
-    Aug 04 13:26:59 <arigo>	hpk: fixing the counting should be easy to do at Heidelberg if needed
-    Aug 04 13:27:21 <arigo>	hpk: I think that time is better spent trying to fix the tests themselves, for now
-    Aug 04 13:27:51 <hpk>	ok, fine by me (but i still want to to look _a bit_ into the test reporting, anyway, so i might give that a look as well)
-    Aug 04 13:28:07 <arigo>	sure
-    Aug 04 13:28:28 <hpk>	there are at least curerntly encoding-problems which prevent test reports 
-    Aug 04 13:28:35 <nik>	one suggestion: it would help if the whole compliancy suite was run daily on some server
-    Aug 04 13:28:40 <nik>	and the results checked in
-    Aug 04 13:28:54 <hpk>	nik: yes, i had that on codespeak.net but stopped it when the server was getting unstable
-    Aug 04 13:29:08 <hpk>	ok, i think we have a conclusion on this
-    Aug 04 13:29:10 <cfbolz>	hpk: I can do that here, if you give me your script
-    Aug 04 13:29:20 <hpk>	cfbolz: ok, will tell you off-this-meeting
-    Aug 04 13:29:27 <cfbolz>	ok
-    Aug 04 13:29:36 *	hpk is about to close the meeting
-    Aug 04 13:30:02 <hpk>	thanks all for coming, and see you on the neighbour channel :-) 
-    Aug 04 13:30:05 <cfbolz>	:-)
-    Aug 04 13:30:08 <cfbolz>	bye
-    Aug 04 13:30:17 <hpk>	bye
-    Aug 04 13:30:28 <adim>	Bye
-    Aug 04 13:30:36 <ericvrp2>	bye
-    Aug 04 13:30:40 <nik>	byebye
-    Aug 04 13:30:47 <arigo>	bye
-    Aug 04 13:31:06 <--	arigo (~arigo@arigo.sustaining.supporter.pdpc) has left #pypy-sync
-    Aug 04 13:31:14 <--	cfbolz (~test@zenon.physi.uni-heidelberg.de) has left #pypy-sync ("Leaving")
-    Aug 04 13:31:36 <--	nik (~chatzilla@253.71.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch) has left #pypy-sync
-    Aug 04 13:31:45 <--	aleale (~chatzilla@clogs.dfki.uni-sb.de) has left #pypy-sync
-    Aug 04 13:32:16 <--	adim (~adim@logilab.net2.nerim.net) has left #pypy-sync

minute/pypy-sync-08-11-2005.txt

-=============================================
-pypy-sync developer meeting 11th August 2005
-=============================================
-
-Time & location: 1pm (30 minutes) at #pypy-sync 
-
-Attendees::
-
-         Samuele Pedroni, 
-         Adrien Di Mascio, 
-         Ludovic Aubrien,
-         Carl Friedrich Bolz, 
-         Niklaus Heidimann,
-         Eric van Riet Paap,
-         Holger Krekel (minutes/moderation)
-         later: Richard Emslie, Michael Hudson, 
-                Armin Rigo, Christian Tismer 
-
-with pre info::
-        Anders Lehmann
-
-Regular Topics 
-====================
-
-- roll call. holger opens the meeting. 
-
-- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info). 
-  All Attendees submitted activity reports (see `IRC-Log`_ 
-  at the end and 'LAST/NEXT/BLOCKERS' entries in particular)
-
-- resolve conflicts/blockers
-  No direct conflicts were discovered. Compliancy work was
-  discussed under its own topic. 
-
-Topics of the week
-===================
-
-re / array status
-------------------
-
-Niklaus reports that _sre is feature-complete and passes 
-compliance tests.  It's running mostly at application leve
-and is thus quite slow.  Niklaus is moving bits and pieces
-to interpreter-level but it is not clear how the main
-dispatching loop could be transformed this way (and especially
-making it non-norecursive).  Advice and comments welcome. 
-Niklaus will basically not be available until the Heidelberg sprint. 
-
-Niklaus also reports that the array module is passing
-the tests but lives fully at applevel. An open question
-is how C data type sizes are modeled in PyPy.  Samuele
-notes that this depends on how we plan to interact
-with user extensions.  It is agreed that this particular
-data-type size question is a post-0.7 issue. 
-
-
-llvm status
----------------------
-
-Eric reports that the llvm is progressing steadily.  There are
-currently 10 exception raising operations left to implement. 
-Also some external (suggested_primitive) functions need to 
-be implemented as well as 64 bit support.  The benchmarks
-richards and bpnn can produce standalone executables 
-already!
-
-While working on the llvm backend, three bugs in the LLVM 
-tool chain itself were discovered, reported and fixed by
-the LLVM guys very quickly.  The current llvm file 
-can be found at http://codespeak.net/~ericvrp/download. 
-Eric thinks that a PyPy standalone version based on LLVM 
-is not far away!  Everybody agrees that next week it would
-make sense to plan an LLVM track (among other tracks) 
-for the Heidelberg sprint. 
-
-GC and threading 
----------------------------------
-
-Two important aspects of the translated PyPy version 
-regard Garbage Collection and Threading.  We planned
-for having both GC and threading implemented as
-translation aspects.  While Carl is working on GC 
-(during his SoC project) we have no translation-aspect 
-code yet regarding threading integration. 
-
-Carl reports that the pure simulator already works. 
-There is an Address class that provides raw access
-to memory which should be used by the actual GC implementations. 
-This class is annotated with SomeAddress. On top of
-this is the 'lltypesimulator', a class that behaves
-like the _ptr type of pypy/rpython/lltype.  Next
-is implementing GC hooks into the llinterp and
-then actually writing GC implementations. 
-An open issue is that the rtyper/specializer needs 
-to be extended to work with the new GC classes. 
-
-Regarding threading there are various aspects
-where discussion started: 
-
-- support for "import thread" and the according API 
-  at Python level could be regarded as a different
-  issue than providing new (stackless) threading techniques. 
-  However, it's probably also possible (Armin thinks) 
-  to offer this API on top of a stackless implementations. 
-
-- threading support at the moment is (according to
-  Samuele) more about how we can weave translation
-  aspects into the translation machinery.  Samuele
-  also emphasizes that supporting os-level threads means
-  quite some debugging work, also judging from Jython
-  experiences which offers free threading. 
-
-more discussion is scheduled to happen at the technical
-board meeting friday 12th August and probably best 
-more on pypy-dev itself (see Armin's `posting`_ and the
-ensuing thread). 
-
-.. _posting: http://codespeak.net/pipermail/pypy-dev/2005q3/002257.html
-
-FYI: codespeak migration status
------------------------------------
-
-The migration of codespeak.net got postponed because the
-target machine's network connectivity is not satisfying yet
-(latency and dropped packets problems).  However, commits
-are now mirrored to the new machine which is basically
-ready to take over in case the current machine gets problems. 
-It's possible that the services get migrated without
-prior announcements (unless people really think it's
-neccessary to pre announce that accordingly). 
-
-This issue was postponed due to time restrictions 
-but it was mostly informational anyway. 
-
-Closing 
-------------------
-
-Holger closes the meeting in time at 13:30pm. 
-
-.. _`IRC-log`:
-
-Here is the full IRC log:: 
-
-    Aug 11 12:40:10 -->	You are now talking on #pypy-sync
-      ...
-    Aug 11 13:00:51 <hpk>	ok, let's start? 
-    Aug 11 13:01:01 <cfbolz>	yes
-    Aug 11 13:01:08 <hpk>	here is the agenda: 
-    Aug 11 13:01:11 <hpk>	- roll call.
-    Aug 11 13:01:11 <hpk>	- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info).
-    Aug 11 13:01:11 <hpk>	- resolve conflicts/blockers
-    Aug 11 13:01:11 <hpk>	*Topics of the week*
-    Aug 11 13:01:11 <hpk>	- re / array status
-    Aug 11 13:01:11 <hpk>	- llvm status
-    Aug 11 13:01:11 <hpk>	- GC and threading
-    Aug 11 13:01:11 <hpk>	- codespeak migration status
-    Aug 11 13:01:27 <hpk>	i propose the following order for activity reports: 
-    Aug 11 13:01:33 <hpk>	arigo, aleale, hpk, adim, cfbolz, ericvrp, nik, pedronis
-    Aug 11 13:01:44 ---	You are now known as arigo
-    Aug 11 13:01:50 <arigo>	DONE: random small stuff; mostly done: proper exc handling in rtyper
-    Aug 11 13:01:50 <arigo>	NEXT: to be decided on the technical board meeting
-    Aug 11 13:01:50 <arigo>	BLOCKERS: -
-    Aug 11 13:01:56 <ludal>	hi
-    Aug 11 13:01:59 ---	You are now known as aleale
-    Aug 11 13:02:05 <aleale>	PREV: Compliance tests
-    Aug 11 13:02:05 <aleale>	NEXT: Compliance tests
-    Aug 11 13:02:05 <aleale>	BLOCKERS: None
-    Aug 11 13:02:31 <aleale>	too many nick changes :-) 
-    Aug 11 13:02:36 <aleale>	adim, can you continue? 
-    Aug 11 13:02:40 <adim>	LAST: astbuilder (starting to have good results)
-    Aug 11 13:02:40 <adim>	NEXT: holidays
-    Aug 11 13:02:40 <adim>	BLOCKERS: none
-    Aug 11 13:02:49 ---	You are now known as hpk
-    Aug 11 13:03:00 <hpk>	LAST: codespeak.net migration, mentoring/user support
-    Aug 11 13:03:00 <hpk>	NEXT: some more codespeak-migration, open issues, at least three non-pypy days
-    Aug 11 13:03:00 <hpk>	BLOCKERS: None
-    Aug 11 13:03:16 <ludal>	PREV: none/helping adrien
-    Aug 11 13:03:17 <ludal>	NEXT: not much more
-    Aug 11 13:03:17 <ludal>	BLOCKERS: none
-    Aug 11 13:03:35 <cfbolz>	LAST: polished my lltype implementation on top of the memory simulation: it works quite well now (only 9 tests of all tests that use llinterp fail)
-    Aug 11 13:03:35 <cfbolz>	NEXT: implement a GC for the llinterp
-    Aug 11 13:03:35 <cfbolz>	BLOCKERS: None
-    Aug 11 13:03:45 <ericvrp>	last: progressing on full pypy translation with llvm
-    Aug 11 13:03:46 <ericvrp>	next: finishing external functions and exception raising operations
-    Aug 11 13:03:48 <ericvrp>	issues: possibly other llvm bugs
-    Aug 11 13:03:55 <nik>	LAST: _sre and array tuning
-    Aug 11 13:04:00 <nik>	NEXT: not much, will be at a conference in brussels from sunday until the sprint
-    Aug 11 13:04:04 <nik>	BLOCKERS: none
-    Aug 11 13:04:22 <pedronis>	Last: 2.4.1 tests, open issues, float ops/math and errors, a bit of tracker gardening, slottified lltype
-    Aug 11 13:04:24 <pedronis>	Next: ll_math.h error handling, ?
-    Aug 11 13:04:25 <pedronis>	Blockers: -
-    Aug 11 13:04:38 <hpk>	ok, thanks, there seems to be no blockers ... 
-    Aug 11 13:04:50 <cfbolz>	except llvm bugs :-(
-    Aug 11 13:04:59 <hpk>	and except that some of the compliance work was a bit re-recommiting
-    Aug 11 13:05:08 <hpk>	but we can talk about this at the sprint or some other time i think
-    Aug 11 13:05:23 <hpk>	so on to the next topic: re / array status
-    Aug 11 13:05:29 -->	rxe (n=rxe@client-82-14-80-179.manc.adsl.virgin.net) has joined #pypy-sync
-    Aug 11 13:05:33 <rxe>	hi
-    Aug 11 13:05:33 <nik>	ok
-    Aug 11 13:05:41 <nik>	_sre is feature-complete and fully compliant
-    Aug 11 13:05:47 <hpk>	rxe: we are in re/array status
-    Aug 11 13:05:49 <nik>	only problem: it's very slow ;)
-    Aug 11 13:06:03 <nik>	i'm slowly migrating some code to interp-level to improve that
-    Aug 11 13:06:11 <hpk>	but the core is running at applevel still? 
-    Aug 11 13:06:16 <nik>	yes
-    Aug 11 13:06:22 <hpk>	(i am not too accustomed to how re works internally)
-    Aug 11 13:06:36 <nik>	the core dispatcher loop is at app-level
-    Aug 11 13:06:50 <hpk>	you basically have a plan how to put this to interp level? 
-    Aug 11 13:07:00 <nik>	no
-    Aug 11 13:07:03 <nik>	it might be hard
-    Aug 11 13:07:09 <nik>	to do it non-recursive
-    Aug 11 13:07:20 <nik>	but not impossible
-    Aug 11 13:07:34 <hpk>	so would you need some helping advices from your mentors? 
-    Aug 11 13:07:55 <nik>	yes
-    Aug 11 13:08:06 <nik>	i think this is best discussed at the sprint
-    Aug 11 13:08:12 -->	mwh (N=user@82-33-185-193.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #pypy-sync
-    Aug 11 13:08:14 <nik>	as i will not have much time to work on it before that anyway
-    Aug 11 13:08:17 <hpk>	ok, especially since you will be away since then 
-    Aug 11 13:08:18 <hpk>	right
-    Aug 11 13:08:24 <hpk>	then a few words about array? 
-    Aug 11 13:08:42 <hpk>	mwh: hi, we are in the re/array topic already 
-    Aug 11 13:08:42 <nik>	array is also compliant
-    Aug 11 13:08:51 <nik>	fully app-level at the moment
-    Aug 11 13:09:00 <mwh>	(i'm late and also only planning on lurking sorry)
-    Aug 11 13:09:00 <nik>	there are conceptual issues:
-    Aug 11 13:09:18 <nik>	do we respect a machine's C data type sizes?
-    Aug 11 13:09:24 <nik>	ie the bytesize of a short int?
-    Aug 11 13:09:41 <nik>	or is pypy like a vm with fixed data type sizes?
-    Aug 11 13:09:56 <nik>	currently sizes are fixed, both in array and in struct
-    Aug 11 13:10:08 <hpk>	good question, pedronis, do you happen to have an opinion on that?
-    Aug 11 13:10:23 <pedronis>	well, the fact is that those aspects are related to interaction with other ext (possibly user) modules
-    Aug 11 13:10:44 <pedronis>	so until we have a model for that is hard to answer
-    Aug 11 13:10:46 <nik>	yes. if a user dumps arrays to disk from CPython
-    Aug 11 13:10:54 <nik>	and tries to read them with pypy's array
-    Aug 11 13:10:58 <nik>	stuff can break at the moment
-    Aug 11 13:11:14 <nik>	but it's a hard problem as array/struct assume a C backend
-    Aug 11 13:11:17 -->	arigo (n=odie@bch-ma-195.epfl.ch) has joined #pypy-sync
-    Aug 11 13:11:18 <hpk>	i guess we should treat this question as a post-0.7 issue
-    Aug 11 13:11:27 <pedronis>	yes
-    Aug 11 13:11:39 <hpk>	arigo: we are at the end of the re/array topic
-    Aug 11 13:11:53 <hpk>	ok, thanks Niklaus, then next topic: llvm status, eric? 
-    Aug 11 13:12:03 <hpk>	(or rxe for that matter)
-    Aug 11 13:12:06 <ericvrp>	this is my prepared text:
-    Aug 11 13:12:07 <ericvrp>	The LLVM backend is progressing slowly but steadily.  We currently have about 10 exception raising operations todo,
-    Aug 11 13:12:09 <ericvrp>	which is straightforward. The other open issue is the handful of external (suggested_primitive) functions that need
-    Aug 11 13:12:10 <ericvrp>	to be implemented. After a standalone version works, we need to refactor (of
-    Aug 11 13:12:12 <ericvrp>	course) and make the thing work on 64bit machines as well.
-    Aug 11 13:12:13 <ericvrp>	The benchmarks bpnn and Richards produce standalone executables already. (python llvm2/demo/richards l)
-    Aug 11 13:12:15 <ericvrp>	We encountered three bugs in the LLVM toolchain which after being reported to the LLVM team were all fixed very quickly. Which, in a way, gives me a good feeling. But discovering, reporting and waiting for fixes/workaround is what is costing us most of the time currently. I hope to have a working standalone mid next-week. 
-    Aug 11 13:12:17 <ericvrp>	The current llvm file can be found at http://codespeak.net/~ericvrp/download
-    Aug 11 13:12:58 <hpk>	wow, i am impressed with the progress
-    Aug 11 13:13:07 <cfbolz>	me as well. very cool!
-    Aug 11 13:13:31 <hpk>	and you reported some 3 times being faster on richards/bpnn, right? 
-    Aug 11 13:13:52 <ericvrp>	the only progress that counts (pypy) is still to come and I am not 100% sure if that will work first time round as did the C backend
-    Aug 11 13:14:07 <hpk>	well, the C backend didn't work exactly first time around :-) 
-    Aug 11 13:14:17 <ericvrp>	about the speed: I don't know if the C backend does any gcc optimizations currently?!?
-    Aug 11 13:14:28 <ericvrp>	richard?
-    Aug 11 13:14:31 <rxe>	hpt: I think I reported the speed increase.
-    Aug 11 13:14:37 <rxe>	hpk
-    Aug 11 13:14:45 <hpk>	ericvrp: the 337 pystones where with -O2 i think
-    Aug 11 13:15:02 <ericvrp>	I have seen no llvm pystone benchmark results
-    Aug 11 13:15:09 <cfbolz>	and for richard/bpnn?
-    Aug 11 13:15:16 <rxe>	however i had modify bpnn to get speed increases
-    Aug 11 13:15:31 <rxe>	for/range to while loops
-    Aug 11 13:15:35 <hpk>	ah, ok, nevermind, that's not too important right now but interesting neverhteless 
-    Aug 11 13:15:49 <hpk>	feel free to report any breakthroughts to pypy-dev, please 
-    Aug 11 13:16:03 <ericvrp>	ok
-    Aug 11 13:16:08 <rxe>	:-)
-    Aug 11 13:16:09 <hpk>	i think it will make sense to have a "llvm" track at the heidelberg sprint
-    Aug 11 13:16:26 <rxe>	yes - I would like to see some unification of the backends
-    Aug 11 13:16:39 <hpk>	indeed, we should discuss this next week in some detail, i think
-    Aug 11 13:16:39 <rxe>	with the external functions and test esp
-    Aug 11 13:16:49 <rxe>	ok
-    Aug 11 13:16:56 <ericvrp>	yes -
-    Aug 11 13:17:18 <hpk>	ok, let's rush to the next topic: GC and threading
-    Aug 11 13:17:28 <hpk>	there is a mail from armin on pypy-dev 
-    Aug 11 13:17:43 <hpk>	and carl, can you say a few words regarding GC and how it is supposed to integrate into PyPy? 
-    Aug 11 13:17:56 <cfbolz>	I am not that far yet :-(
-    Aug 11 13:18:02 <cfbolz>	I did some groundwork, and hope that I can now actually start to work writing GCs
-    Aug 11 13:18:07 -->	stakkars (i=mtsnwcw@i528C1380.versanet.de) has joined #pypy-sync
-    Aug 11 13:18:19 <hpk>	cfbolz: so you are at the pure simulator still 
-    Aug 11 13:18:27 <cfbolz>	there is an Address class that provides raw access to memory and should be used by the GC implementation. this class is annotated with SomeAddress
-    Aug 11 13:18:35 <cfbolz>	hpk: yes
-    Aug 11 13:18:40 <cfbolz>	there is a memory simulator that simulates the address' behaviour
-    Aug 11 13:18:52 <cfbolz>	on top of this there is the lltypesimulator: a class that behaves like the _ptr  type of lltype
-    Aug 11 13:19:17 <cfbolz>	the next thing I'm doing is imeplemting GC hooks into the llinterp for the 
-    Aug 11 13:19:29 <cfbolz>	and then actually write a GC
-    Aug 11 13:19:37 <cfbolz>	there is still quite some stuff left:
-    Aug 11 13:19:56 <cfbolz>	the rtyper has to be extended to work with the GC stuff
-    Aug 11 13:20:13 <cfbolz>	plus some more unsolved problems
-    Aug 11 13:20:30 <hpk>	i see, but i guess you are in consultation with Samuele there
-    Aug 11 13:20:37 <cfbolz>	of course
-    Aug 11 13:21:14 <hpk>	ok, arigo, and all, i have a question regarding threading
-    Aug 11 13:21:14 <cfbolz>	one other problem:
-    Aug 11 13:21:21 <cfbolz>	no go on
-    Aug 11 13:21:40 <hpk>	doesn't it make sense to divide the discussion into "import thread" support and "new threading facilities"? 
-    Aug 11 13:22:15 <hpk>	i mean we do need to offer the thread module, and e.g. stackless ideas or having multiple object spaes is a different issue, isn't it? 
-    Aug 11 13:22:32 <stakkars>	yes
-    Aug 11 13:23:24 <hpk>	arigo, pedronis: i am fine with raising and discussing this on pypy-dev, though, if further immediate comments cannot be made
-    Aug 11 13:23:34 <pedronis>	well, you could hava import thread threads as user level threads
-    Aug 11 13:23:58 <stakkars>	too bad that I missed the begining
-    Aug 11 13:24:11 <hpk>	pedronis: but that might already violate assumptions regarding compliancy? 
-    Aug 11 13:24:34 <hpk>	stakkars: this is just the first discussion, more to follow and the pypy-dev thread is there as well
-    Aug 11 13:24:40 <pedronis>	I don't think that threadidng is a compliancy problem
-    Aug 11 13:24:52 <pedronis>	is more about showing what translating can achieve
-    Aug 11 13:24:58 <pedronis>	at the moment
-    Aug 11 13:24:58 <stakkars>	nor do I. It is an option which can be turned off
-    Aug 11 13:25:19 <hpk>	pedronis: i see the point but i am not sure i 100% agree
-    Aug 11 13:25:39 <arigo>	hpk: I think we can emulate the thread module with stackless translation
-    Aug 11 13:25:59 <arigo>	just by switching tasklets automatically every N bytecodes
-    Aug 11 13:26:21 <hpk>	maybe
-    Aug 11 13:26:25 <pedronis>	well, supporting os threads means potentially quite some debugging
-    Aug 11 13:26:35 *	hpk notes 4 minutes left
-    Aug 11 13:26:35 <stakkars>	yes, I think so, too. I did some tests and theoretical musings.
-    Aug 11 13:26:37 <pedronis>	threads are not nice that way
-    Aug 11 13:26:48 <stakkars>	may I drop my 3 lines?
-    Aug 11 13:26:56 <hpk>	yes
-    Aug 11 13:27:01 <rxe>	cant we introduce OS threads and GIL except for IO?
-    Aug 11 13:27:02 <pedronis>	Jython has free
-    Aug 11 13:27:23 <stakkars>	DONE: integrated the new marshal module. Wrote exact string_to_float, moved it to interp-level, did some tests and theory about how to stackless
-    Aug 11 13:27:32 <stakkars>	NEXT: write a book chapter on PyPy
-    Aug 11 13:27:39 <stakkars>	BLOCK: time consumption due to memory fotprint and swapping, hard to track side effects of certain statements on the annotator
-    Aug 11 13:28:05 <hpk>	ok, let's continue gc+threading at pypy-dev and at the technical board meeting, last topic (3 minutes left) 
-    Aug 11 13:28:10 <pedronis>	Jython has free threading but is all quite delicate
-    Aug 11 13:28:19 <stakkars>	the blocker is muc better since I pushed arigo/pedronis to slotify
-    Aug 11 13:28:40 <hpk>	codespeak.net migration is half-done
-    Aug 11 13:28:48 <pedronis>	well, slottifying lltype killed 150m of memory usage
-    Aug 11 13:28:56 <hpk>	svn commits are mirrored to code2.codespeak.net seconds after the commit on the main hosts happens
-    Aug 11 13:29:01 <stakkars>	yes, I noticed.
-    Aug 11 13:29:08 <pedronis>	I don't know what happens combined with compacting node.py
-    Aug 11 13:29:20 *	hpk stops with the topic
-    Aug 11 13:29:37 <hpk>	stakkars, pedronis: are you reading my comments? 
-    Aug 11 13:29:48 <stakkars>	where?
-    Aug 11 13:29:54 <cfbolz>	here
-    Aug 11 13:29:57 <hpk>	well, i tried to move to the next topic
-    Aug 11 13:30:04 <hpk>	but you conitnued with the old topic 
-    Aug 11 13:30:04 <stakkars>	which is it
-    Aug 11 13:30:13 <hpk>	pypy-sync has a very tight schedule
-    Aug 11 13:30:35 <hpk>	in fact, the meeting is closed now
-    Aug 11 13:30:54 <hpk>	it
-    Aug 11 13:31:09 <hpk>	pypy-sync is just for synchronisation not for full blown content discussions
-    Aug 11 13:31:13 *	stakkars wonders why hpk wasted the rest instead of moving on
-    Aug 11 13:31:35 *	pedronis to make his point
-    Aug 11 13:32:26 <rxe>	can i post 3 lines (sorry I was late)?
-    Aug 11 13:32:29 <rxe>	DONE: tiny llvm stuff
-    Aug 11 13:32:29 <rxe>	NEXT: llvm refactors / organise sprint travelling
-    Aug 11 13:32:29 <rxe>	BLOCKERS: new laptop
-    Aug 11 13:33:01 <hpk>	thanks, i'll add it to the minutes
-    Aug 11 13:33:16 <cfbolz>	bye
-    Aug 11 13:33:20 <hpk>	see you
-    Aug 11 13:33:21 <stakkars>	bye
-    Aug 11 13:33:22 <adim>	bye
-    Aug 11 13:33:24 <mwh>	bye
-    Aug 11 13:33:24 <rxe>	bye
-    Aug 11 13:33:25 <ericvrp>	bye
-    Aug 11 13:33:30 <ludal>	bye
-    Aug 11 13:33:35 <--	mwh (N=user@82-33-185-193.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has left #pypy-sync ("ERC Version 5.0 (CVS) $Revision: 1.767 $ (IRC client for Emacs)")
-    Aug 11 13:33:36 <--	stakkars (i=mtsnwcw@i528C1380.versanet.de) has left #pypy-sync
-    Aug 11 13:33:39 <--	adim (n=adim@logilab.net2.nerim.net) has left #pypy-sync
-    Aug 11 13:33:42 <--	nik (n=chatzill@123.74.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch) has left #pypy-sync
-    Aug 11 13:33:43 <--	rxe (n=rxe@client-82-14-80-179.manc.adsl.virgin.net) has left #pypy-sync
-    Aug 11 13:33:49 <--	cfbolz (n=a@b0bar.physi.uni-heidelberg.de) has left #pypy-sync ("Leaving")
-    Aug 11 13:33:50 <--	ericvrp (N=chatzill@ericvrp.demon.nl) has left #pypy-sync
-

minute/pypy-sync-08-18-2005.txt

-=============================================
-pypy-sync developer meeting 18th August 2005
-=============================================
-
-Time & location: 1pm (30 minutes) at #pypy-sync 
-
-Attendees::
-
-         Samuele Pedroni, 
-         Carl Friedrich Bolz, 
-         Armin Rigo
-         Anders Chrigstroem
-         Anders Lehmann
-         Michael Hudson (lurking) 
-         Holger Krekel (minutes/moderation)
-
-Regular Topics 
-====================
-
-- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info). 
-  All Attendees submitted activity reports (see `IRC-Log`_ 
-  at the end and 'LAST/NEXT/BLOCKERS' entries in particular)
-
-- resolve conflicts/blockers
-  No conflicts were discovered.
-
-Topics of the week
-===================
-
-More detailed Heidelberg Sprint Planning 
--------------------------------------------
-
-The `Heidelberg sprint announcement`_ already listed 
-some topics which we discussed in more detail. 
-Samuele then prepared a first `heidelberg-planning`_ 
-document that we are going to use monday morning. 
-
-.. _`Heidelberg sprint announcement`: http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?extradoc/sprintinfo/Heidelberg-sprint.html
-.. _`heidelberg-planning`: http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?extradoc/sprintinfo/heidelberg-planning.html 
-
-Closing 
-------------------
-
-Holger closes the meeting in time at 13:30pm. 
-
-.. _`IRC-log`: 
-
-Here is the full IRC log:: 
-
-    **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 18 12:59:41 2005
-    Aug 18 12:59:41 -->	You are now talking on #pypy-sync
-    Aug 18 13:01:15 -->	arigo (n=chatzill@d213-103-136-75.cust.tele2.ch) has joined #pypy-sync
-    Aug 18 13:02:19 -->	mwh (n=user@82-33-185-193.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #pypy-sync
-    Aug 18 13:02:49 <mwh>	(lurking again today)
-    Aug 18 13:03:16 -->	aleale (n=andersle@clogs.dfki.uni-sb.de) has joined #pypy-sync
-    Aug 18 13:03:52 <hpk>	are we ready to start the meeting? 
-    Aug 18 13:04:12 <cfbolz>	I am
-    Aug 18 13:04:16 -->	arre (i=7355b7b7@1-1-5-33a.gfa.gbg.bostream.se) has joined #pypy-sync
-    Aug 18 13:04:25 <hpk>	hey arre
-    Aug 18 13:04:37 <arigo>	yes
-    Aug 18 13:04:53 <hpk>	pedronis: are you there as well? 
-    Aug 18 13:04:59 <aleale>	yes
-    Aug 18 13:05:04 <pedronis>	yes
-    Aug 18 13:05:11 <hpk>	great, then here is the agenda:
-    Aug 18 13:05:16 <arre>	I'm still on vacation, coincidentally i was near a computer when the meeting should start :)
-    Aug 18 13:05:16 <hpk>	- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info).
-    Aug 18 13:05:16 <hpk>	- resolve conflicts/blockers
-    Aug 18 13:05:16 <hpk>	*Topics of the week*
-    Aug 18 13:05:16 <hpk>	- Preplanning Heidelberg sprint
-    Aug 18 13:05:34 <hpk>	i suppose we start with cfbolz, aleale,arigo,hpk,pedronis on the activity reports
-    Aug 18 13:05:42 <aleale>	PREV: compliance test
-    Aug 18 13:05:42 <aleale>	Next: Sprint (more compliance tests)
-    Aug 18 13:05:42 <aleale>	blockers: -