extradoc / minute / pypy-sync-2005-07-14.txt

pypy-sync developer meeting 14th July 2005

Attendees:  Samuele, Anders C., Anders L., Adrien Di Mascio, Ludovic Aubrien, 
            Christian Tismer, Carl-Friedrich Bolz, Holger Krekel 

Excused with Pre-Info: Armin 

Regular Topics 

- roll call. OK.

- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info). 
  Everybody submitted activity reports (see `IRC-Log`_ at the end)

- re-assigning / adjusting planning / resolve conflicts/blockers

  Everybody except Anders Lehmann has plans for next week. 
  No conflicts.  Anders L., Samuele and Holger are to try discuss
  tasks for Anders outside of this pypy-sync meeting. Holger 
  notes that he wants to be signalled before the meeting 
  if somebody is lacking tasks. 

Topics of the week

fixating sprint in Hildesheim (25th-31st July)

Armin, Samuele, Christian, Carl (except for one day) and Holger 
can make it to the Hildesheim sprint.  We decided that it will 
take place. 

decide/agree about usage of issue tracker (for 0.6.2/0.7.0)

everybody agrees and recognizes that we are going to use 
the issue tracker for the upcoming releases. So be it. 

list current main areas of work regarding reaching Deliverable D05.2

Armin: Progressing on  There is a temp file
pypy/translator/goal/ISSUES.txt which lists currently open issues.  
Samuele adds that he has some worries about memory usage 
regarding the rtyping process but nothing concrete yet. 
Generally the strategy is to try with 
a different SEED.  Christian will add info to ISSUES.txt 
about how to use it. 

Heidelberg sprint planning status, 22nd-29th August 

It is re-confirmed that the sprint should take place 
from 22nd-29th in Heidelberg, Germany.  Carl Friedrich will fix
the place now and report back.  We should discuss/prepare 
the sprint-announcement regarding topics etc.pp. at the
next sync-meeting. 


Holger closes the meeting in time at 13:30pm. 

.. _`IRC-log`: 

Here is the full IRC log:: 

 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 14 13:01:32 2005
 Jul 14 13:01:32 -->	You are now talking on #pypy-sync
 Jul 14 13:01:32 ---	#pypy-sync :[freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify!
 Jul 14 13:02:30 <hpk>	pedronis: hello?
 Jul 14 13:02:34 -->	adim ( has joined #pypy-sync
 Jul 14 13:02:39 <pedronis>	hpk: hi
 Jul 14 13:03:02 <adim>	Hi Holger, Hi Samuele
 Jul 14 13:03:06 <hpk>	hi adrien
 Jul 14 13:03:07 -->	cfbolz ( has joined #pypy-sync
 Jul 14 13:03:10 -->	arre ( has joined #pypy-sync
 Jul 14 13:03:17 -->	aleale ( has joined #pypy-sync
 Jul 14 13:03:38 <hpk>	cfbolz: hi carl
 Jul 14 13:03:49 <hpk>	ok, i think we can start the meeting.
 Jul 14 13:03:56 <hpk>	armin send me info already he might make it later 
 Jul 14 13:04:00 -->	ludal ( has joined #pypy-sync
 Jul 14 13:04:08 <hpk>	christian didn't say anything, though
 Jul 14 13:04:11 <hpk>	anyway. 
 Jul 14 13:04:24 <hpk>	the idea is to really stick to the 30 minutes, we will end the meeting at 13:30 
 Jul 14 13:04:37 <hpk>	so don't walk away to grab a coffee or something :-) 
 Jul 14 13:04:46 <hpk>	here is the agenda: 
 Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	- roll call
 Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info)
 Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	- re-assigning / adjusting planning / resolve conflicts/blockers
 Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	- Topics of the week:
 Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	  - fixating sprint in Hildesheim (25th-31st July)
 Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	  - decide/agree about usage of issue tracker (for 0.6.2/0.7.0)
 Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	  - list current main areas of work regarding reaching Deliverable D05.2
 Jul 14 13:04:53 <hpk>	  - Heidelberg sprint planning status (now: 15-22th August !!!)
 Jul 14 13:05:19 <hpk>	everybody fine with this agenda? 
 Jul 14 13:05:27 <cfbolz>	yes
 Jul 14 13:05:30 <aleale>	yes
 Jul 14 13:05:36 <pedronis>	yes
 Jul 14 13:05:55 <adim>	yes
 Jul 14 13:05:55 <arre>	yes
 Jul 14 13:05:56 <hpk>	ok, then activity reports: i'll just start off with my and Armin's info: 
 Jul 14 13:06:03 <hpk>	last week: begin interpreter-docs, fix codespeak/website issues, fix testresults page, some eu/managementissues
 Jul 14 13:06:03 <hpk>	next week: finish interpreter docs, write external (oslevel) functions, prepare codespeak-move
 Jul 14 13:06:03 <hpk>	blocking: (slightly) terminology cleanup / missing glossary / (maybe llvm-state)
 Jul 14 13:06:14 ---	You are now known as arigo
 Jul 14 13:06:28 <arigo>	last week: rtyper; progress in translate_pypy; polished framework for external func calls.
 Jul 14 13:06:28 <arigo>	next week: holidays until wednesday
 Jul 14 13:06:28 <arigo>	blockers: None
 Jul 14 13:06:35 ---	You are now known as hpk
 Jul 14 13:06:40 <cfbolz>	last week: logistics, accomodation for Heidelberg sprint; own stuff
 Jul 14 13:06:40 <cfbolz>	next week: more logistics; garbage collection
 Jul 14 13:06:40 <cfbolz>	blockers: my own stuff takes too much time :-(
 Jul 14 13:06:41 <hpk>	pedronis: you continue? 
 Jul 14 13:06:49 <hpk>	cfbolz: ok
 Jul 14 13:06:49 <cfbolz>	sorry
 Jul 14 13:06:52 <hpk>	np
 Jul 14 13:07:00 <pedronis>	DONE: translate_pypy progress, instatiate of classes with Armin...; solved some attributes that were attached too high the hierarchy, some support for pyobjs ops in the llinterp, and more work with Arre on translate_pypy; refactored rtyper to use for args parsing and call_args support
 Jul 14 13:07:01 <pedronis>	NEXT: more translate_pypy work, possibly refactor specialisation to treats override and memos as builtins, refactor gencapi usage to go through external func table
 Jul 14 13:07:03 <pedronis>	ISSUES: a bit worried about rtyping mem usage but too soon too really tell
 Jul 14 13:07:43 <hpk>	adim, ludal, aleale, arre: in this order? 
 Jul 14 13:07:44 -->	stakkars ( has joined #pypy-sync
 Jul 14 13:07:53 <stakkars>	hi
 Jul 14 13:07:56 <hpk>	stakkars: hi christian, we are in activity reports already 
 Jul 14 13:08:03 <adim>	last week: Nothing since Europython sprint
 Jul 14 13:08:12 <adim>	next week: astbuilder (parser/compiler)
 Jul 14 13:08:18 <stakkars>	here my three sentences:
 Jul 14 13:08:19 <stakkars>	I have worked on long math and strutil and continued on seed 49 
 Jul 14 13:08:19 <stakkars>	I want to work on seed 49 next week
 Jul 14 13:08:19 <stakkars>	main blocker is windows, and I cannot use the fork thing.
 Jul 14 13:08:25 <adim>	blockers: nothing in particular
 Jul 14 13:08:30 <ludal>	last week: work on providing translatable ast builder
 Jul 14 13:08:30 <ludal>	next week: try and finish it
 Jul 14 13:08:30 <ludal>	blockers: none
 Jul 14 13:08:54 <aleale>	last week: vacation
 Jul 14 13:09:11 <aleale>	next week: weakref, ?
 Jul 14 13:09:20 <aleale>	blocks : none
 Jul 14 13:09:53 *	stakkars is sorry to be late, the machine decided to run a windows update right now :-(
 Jul 14 13:10:02 <hpk>	ludal: you are going to post? 
 Jul 14 13:10:13 <hpk>	stakkars: what is "seed 49"? 
 Jul 14 13:10:19 <arre>	Last week: Fixing some problems related to unicode,  Work on annotation/rtyper to be able to process PyPy
 Jul 14 13:10:28 <arre>	Next week: annotation/rtyper and/or implementing modules os and math, if there is enough time take the week off.
 Jul 14 13:10:41 <arre>	Blockers:  Not knowing the darker corners of the annotator/rtyper (In the process of being solved through having Samuele close by)
 Jul 14 13:10:55 <hpk>	arre: take the week of from Strakt you mean? 
 Jul 14 13:10:57 <ludal>	hpk: post?
 Jul 14 13:11:02 <stakkars>	:-)  there is a random shuffling algo in the annotator, and I got seed 49
 Jul 14 13:11:09 <hpk>	ludal: forget it,  i missed your lines, sorry
 Jul 14 13:11:22 <hpk>	stakkars: ah fine :-) 
 Jul 14 13:11:27 <arre>	Yes. I have woked too many hours as it is.
 Jul 14 13:11:46 <hpk>	ok, we got it then for now. Next topic: re-assigning/resolving 
 Jul 14 13:12:01 <hpk>	it seems that only aleale doesn't have a plan for next week
 Jul 14 13:12:15 <hpk>	i think that weakref is not a priority and we should wait a bit with cfbolz's work on GC 
 Jul 14 13:12:15 <aleale>	right
 Jul 14 13:12:26 <cfbolz>	wanted to say the same :-)
 Jul 14 13:12:33 <aleale>	indeed
 Jul 14 13:12:58 <hpk>	aleale: let's discuss possible work areas for you this off this pypy-sync meeting with Samuele and maybe others 
 Jul 14 13:13:08 <aleale>	ok
 Jul 14 13:13:10 <hpk>	generally i'd like to be signalled ahead of the meeting if one doesn't know what to work on
 Jul 14 13:13:29 <hpk>	next topic:   - fixating sprint in Hildesheim (25th-31st July)
 Jul 14 13:13:45 <hpk>	you probably all have read that the technical board thinks we should do a in-between internal sprint 
 Jul 14 13:13:56 <hpk>	the idea is 25th-31st July in Hildesheim (at my house) 
 Jul 14 13:14:15 <hpk>	who could come and who could not come? please everybody post here
 Jul 14 13:14:19 <stakkars>	yes, I thought this was decided, already
 Jul 14 13:14:39 <cfbolz>	I can, minus one day
 Jul 14 13:14:39 <stakkars>	I will order my ticket, today
 Jul 14 13:14:39 <adim>	I won't come
 Jul 14 13:14:57 <pedronis>	yes, need to organize travel
 Jul 14 13:15:01 <ludal>	can't: vacation
 Jul 14 13:15:05 <arre>	My vacation starts that week, so no.
 Jul 14 13:15:20 <aleale>	I am not sure yet, just learned about it yesterday
 Jul 14 13:15:27 <stakkars>	what about arigo, is he traveling right now?
 Jul 14 13:15:32 <hpk>	armin is going to come 
 Jul 14 13:15:36 <aleale>	will know tomorrow
 Jul 14 13:15:37 <pedronis>	he will be there
 Jul 14 13:15:57 <hpk>	ok, that means: samuele, christian, holger, armin fulltime and cfbolz (-1 day) 
 Jul 14 13:15:58 <stakkars>	I asked why he is not in themeeting.
 Jul 14 13:16:09 <hpk>	he is busy, but he sent me mail with his info before 
 Jul 14 13:16:22 <pedronis>	he is in belgium
 Jul 14 13:16:43 <pedronis>	then will be in Düsseldorf and from there to the sprint
 Jul 14 13:16:57 <stakkars>	thanks
 Jul 14 13:17:15 <stakkars>	for the sprint, we need an even number of people, as I remember :-)
 Jul 14 13:17:16 <hpk>	ok, so the 25th-31st sprint is fixed then and i will prepare it, please arrive on the 24th evening or 25th morning and mail me about accomodation wishes 
 Jul 14 13:17:42 <hpk>	i'll post some info on pypy-sprint, make sure you are subscribed there
 Jul 14 13:18:01 <hpk>	next topic: usage of issue tracker
 Jul 14 13:18:25 <hpk>	for the upcoming releases (0.6.2 and 0.7/1.0) it has been discussed that we want to use the issue tracker 
 Jul 14 13:18:43 <hpk>	it should be clear to everyone (e.g. regarding the parser issues) that it is neccessary to look there 
 Jul 14 13:18:55 <hpk>	and update the issues accordingly 
 Jul 14 13:19:12 <hpk>	also the longobject issues etc.pp. 
 Jul 14 13:19:32 <hpk>	does everyone agree about using the pypy-dev tracker in this way? 
 Jul 14 13:19:41 <aleale>	ye
 Jul 14 13:19:43 <aleale>	s
 Jul 14 13:19:54 <cfbolz>	yes
 Jul 14 13:20:05 <adim>	yes
 Jul 14 13:20:09 <ludal>	yes
 Jul 14 13:20:19 <arre>	yes
 Jul 14 13:20:42 <stakkars>	yes
 Jul 14 13:20:51 <hpk>	pedronis: you too, i guess? 
 Jul 14 13:21:05 *	hpk notes we have 9 minutes left 
 Jul 14 13:21:14 <pedronis>	yes
 Jul 14 13:21:23 <hpk>	next topic:   - list current main areas of work regarding reaching Deliverable D05.2
 Jul 14 13:21:30 <hpk>	armin sent me this info from his POV: 
 Jul 14 13:21:39 <hpk>	Progressing on  There is a temp file
 Jul 14 13:21:39 <hpk>	pypy/translator/goal/ISSUES.txt.  Difficult to know more precisely what
 Jul 14 13:21:39 <hpk>	is left.  AFAICT we'll reach the first goal (PyPy as C ext module) any
 Jul 14 13:21:39 <hpk>	day or week now.
 Jul 14 13:22:08 <hpk>	samuele, anything you'd like to add (if not now then just to ISSUES.txt) 
 Jul 14 13:22:50 <pedronis>	we are solving issues as we seen them fromt translate_pypy
 Jul 14 13:22:58 <pedronis>	there are 14000 blocks to go
 Jul 14 13:23:09 <pedronis>	we reach some hundreds now
 Jul 14 13:23:16 <cfbolz>	oops
 Jul 14 13:23:27 <pedronis>	well, it doesn't mean much
 Jul 14 13:23:46 <pedronis>	each fix should adress more than one block
 Jul 14 13:23:55 <pedronis>	much more
 Jul 14 13:24:13 <hpk>	pedronis: ok, i suggest to add separatable issues into the ISSUES.txt for everyone to see (if they are not solved/solveable isntantly)
 Jul 14 13:24:15 <pedronis>	the only worry is a bit memory usage but hard to tell until we go trough more blocks
 Jul 14 13:24:28 <ludal>	any way we could parallelize the work ?
 Jul 14 13:24:37 <stakkars>	yes.
 Jul 14 13:24:45 <hpk>	pedronis, stakkars: can you quickly tell about the "seed" situation? 
 Jul 14 13:24:59 <stakkars>	pick a random seed not in (42, 49, samuele what's your's?)
 Jul 14 13:25:18 <pedronis>	46
 Jul 14 13:25:22 <stakkars>	set the environ variable (wait...)
 Jul 14 13:25:28 <pedronis>	RTYPERSEED
 Jul 14 13:25:41 <hpk>	let's put this info into ISSUES.txt please, stakkars, can you do that? 
 Jul 14 13:25:43 <stakkars>	yep! And this gives you a different order of problems.
 Jul 14 13:25:49 <stakkars>	sure
 Jul 14 13:25:55 <hpk>	ok, next topic (5 minutes left) 
 Jul 14 13:26:03 <stakkars>	4
 Jul 14 13:26:07 <hpk>	Heidelberg sprint planning status (now: 15-22th August !!!)
 Jul 14 13:26:16 <cfbolz>	why did the date change?
 Jul 14 13:26:25 <hpk>	you mailed the 15th-22nd august for the sprint-date 
 Jul 14 13:26:29 <hpk>	in your last mail to me 
 Jul 14 13:26:31 <cfbolz>	hum
 Jul 14 13:26:43 <hpk>	you are the person who needs to reserve the rooms :-)
 Jul 14 13:26:58 <arre>	Bad timing. My vacation ends 21/8.
 Jul 14 13:27:11 <cfbolz>	it doesn't matter much for the rooms, I think I did a mistake in the mail to you :-(
 Jul 14 13:27:16 <cfbolz>	sorry for the confusion
 Jul 14 13:27:25 <cfbolz>	(I can get a room for the whole of August)
 Jul 14 13:27:59 <hpk>	cfbolz: ok, so it stays 22nd (monday) -29th August (monday) ? 
 Jul 14 13:28:07 <stakkars>	I have a fixed date on 24.09. in Kiel and on 27.08., everything else is fine.
 Jul 14 13:28:18 <cfbolz>	hpk: I guess so
 Jul 14 13:28:29 <hpk>	cfbolz: let's fix it until monday next week
 Jul 14 13:28:34 <hpk>	is that possible for you? 
 Jul 14 13:28:46 <cfbolz>	I can fix it immediately, I just have to know
 Jul 14 13:28:50 <hpk>	stakkars: the 27th August would be in the sprint, but maybe you can just travel a day? 
 Jul 14 13:29:30 <ludal>	for me it's fine 22-29 aug
 Jul 14 13:29:41 <hpk>	ludal: great!
 Jul 14 13:29:43 <stakkars>	yes, I have to go to a big party, my ex-wife becomes 50
 Jul 14 13:29:50 <hpk>	aleale, arre, pedronis: for you it's fine as well i guess 
 Jul 14 13:29:57 <pedronis>	yes
 Jul 14 13:30:01 <aleale>	I am happy with the 22-29 too
 Jul 14 13:30:13 <stakkars>	all fine with me
 Jul 14 13:30:14 <hpk>	i am going to contact Michael Hudson 
 Jul 14 13:30:19 <arre>	Would work.
 Jul 14 13:30:22 <hpk>	great, this finishes this meeting! 
 Jul 14 13:30:31 <hpk>	thanks for coming, see you next week latest!