pypy-sync developer meeting 18th August 2005
Time & location: 1pm (30 minutes) at #pypy-sync
Carl Friedrich Bolz,
Michael Hudson (lurking)
Holger Krekel (minutes/moderation)
- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info).
All Attendees submitted activity reports (see `IRC-Log`_
at the end and 'LAST/NEXT/BLOCKERS' entries in particular)
- resolve conflicts/blockers
No conflicts were discovered.
Topics of the week
More detailed Heidelberg Sprint Planning
The `Heidelberg sprint announcement`_ already listed
some topics which we discussed in more detail.
Samuele then prepared a first `heidelberg-planning`_
document that we are going to use monday morning.
.. _`Heidelberg sprint announcement`: http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?extradoc/sprintinfo/Heidelberg-sprint.html
.. _`heidelberg-planning`: http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?extradoc/sprintinfo/heidelberg-planning.html
Holger closes the meeting in time at 13:30pm.
Here is the full IRC log::
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 18 12:59:41 2005
Aug 18 12:59:41 --> You are now talking on #pypy-sync
Aug 18 13:01:15 --> arigo (email@example.com) has joined #pypy-sync
Aug 18 13:02:19 --> mwh (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #pypy-sync
Aug 18 13:02:49 <mwh> (lurking again today)
Aug 18 13:03:16 --> aleale (email@example.com) has joined #pypy-sync
Aug 18 13:03:52 <hpk> are we ready to start the meeting?
Aug 18 13:04:12 <cfbolz> I am
Aug 18 13:04:16 --> arre (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #pypy-sync
Aug 18 13:04:25 <hpk> hey arre
Aug 18 13:04:37 <arigo> yes
Aug 18 13:04:53 <hpk> pedronis: are you there as well?
Aug 18 13:04:59 <aleale> yes
Aug 18 13:05:04 <pedronis> yes
Aug 18 13:05:11 <hpk> great, then here is the agenda:
Aug 18 13:05:16 <arre> I'm still on vacation, coincidentally i was near a computer when the meeting should start :)
Aug 18 13:05:16 <hpk> - activity reports (3 prepared lines of info).
Aug 18 13:05:16 <hpk> - resolve conflicts/blockers
Aug 18 13:05:16 <hpk> *Topics of the week*
Aug 18 13:05:16 <hpk> - Preplanning Heidelberg sprint
Aug 18 13:05:34 <hpk> i suppose we start with cfbolz, aleale,arigo,hpk,pedronis on the activity reports
Aug 18 13:05:42 <aleale> PREV: compliance test
Aug 18 13:05:42 <aleale> Next: Sprint (more compliance tests)
Aug 18 13:05:42 <aleale> blockers: -
Aug 18 13:05:55 <cfbolz> LAST: plugged gc into the llinterp, preparation for an exam + exam
Aug 18 13:05:55 <cfbolz> NEXT: working on gc, heidelberg
Aug 18 13:05:55 <cfbolz> BLOCKERS: none
Aug 18 13:06:16 <hpk> LAST: non-pypy work, codespeak.net migration/related infrastructure
Aug 18 13:06:16 <hpk> NEXT: preparing and doing the heidelberg sprint
Aug 18 13:06:16 <hpk> BLOCKERS: None
Aug 18 13:06:23 <arre> Last week: Vacation.
Aug 18 13:06:23 <arre> Next week: Catching up.
Aug 18 13:06:24 <arre> Blockers: No known.
Aug 18 13:06:44 <arigo> DONE: progress on threads with a GIL; translating it
Aug 18 13:06:52 <arigo> NEXT: more work on the same (nasty rare bugs around)
Aug 18 13:06:53 <arigo> BLOCKER: no network access from my laptop :-(
Aug 18 13:07:06 <pedronis> Last: took some time off, worked a bit on translate_pypy.py itself, helped people
Aug 18 13:07:07 <pedronis> witth annotation problems, compiled Boehm for my machines
Aug 18 13:07:09 <pedronis> Next: (rtyping addresses) sprint
Aug 18 13:07:11 <pedronis> Issues: -
Aug 18 13:07:45 <hpk> ok, i didn't get notice from logilab or christian
Aug 18 13:08:06 <hpk> then i suppose we go on with heidelberg sprint planning
Aug 18 13:08:22 <hpk> just as a background i am listing the issues from the announcements
Aug 18 13:08:32 <hpk> - translation efforts: it's not completely clear
Aug 18 13:08:32 <hpk> now what related task will be left at that time
Aug 18 13:08:32 <hpk> - work on 2.4.1 compliancy: there are some failing compliancy
Aug 18 13:08:32 <hpk> tests on which we plan to work
Aug 18 13:08:32 <hpk> - rewriting c-extension modules/integrating existing rewrites
Aug 18 13:08:32 <hpk> - all kinds of small release issues
Aug 18 13:08:32 <hpk> - possibly some more LLVM efforts
Aug 18 13:09:03 <hpk> i suppose we should go through them and try to get a status and plans for the sprints
Aug 18 13:09:05 <hpk> does that make sense?
Aug 18 13:09:23 <aleale> yes
Aug 18 13:09:34 <arre> nod
Aug 18 13:10:06 <hpk> arigo, pedronis, cfbolz: or do you want to do it differently?
Aug 18 13:10:21 <cfbolz> I am fine with that
Aug 18 13:10:28 <arigo> me too
Aug 18 13:10:38 <pedronis> me too
Aug 18 13:10:46 <hpk> ok, so translation tasks: what is left? let's start with threading because that is probably the most open field
Aug 18 13:11:05 <hpk> arigo: could you say a few words on that?
Aug 18 13:11:15 <arigo> it's kind of done
Aug 18 13:11:20 <cfbolz> :-)
Aug 18 13:11:23 <hpk> :-)
Aug 18 13:11:28 <cfbolz> it's kind of impressive
Aug 18 13:11:43 <arigo> but there are some bugs left somewhere (I get a test failure randomly from time to time)
Aug 18 13:11:55 <hpk> and you used a GIL approach
Aug 18 13:12:04 <hpk> in a modular way?
Aug 18 13:12:08 <arigo> yes
Aug 18 13:12:20 <arigo> the GIL code is in a single submodule
Aug 18 13:12:55 <arigo> well from there I'd just like to point to a few files
Aug 18 13:13:09 <hpk> right.
Aug 18 13:13:10 <hpk> does it make sense to even try go for a different thread model during/until the sprint?
Aug 18 13:13:43 <arigo> I don't know, maybe during the sprint we can discuss another simple locking policy
Aug 18 13:14:28 <arigo> I also extended the annotator/rtyper to have "external types" in addition to external functions
Aug 18 13:14:34 <arigo> I needed it for lock objects
Aug 18 13:15:04 <hpk> sounds good to me, everyone else ok with the basic "we see if we want a second approach" or should we put more focus on getting more on threading?
Aug 18 13:15:43 <cfbolz> we could decide that based on whether someone is very interested working on this
Aug 18 13:15:43 <arre> Sounds good to me.
Aug 18 13:15:45 <aleale> I agree
Aug 18 13:16:35 <hpk> pedronis: you too if i may ask?
Aug 18 13:16:55 <pedronis> I think we discuss this at the sprint
Aug 18 13:17:15 <hpk> ok, but then on the first day i guess and in relation to the other tasks
Aug 18 13:17:30 <hpk> i believe we can easily agree that we need an ongoing track on fixing and discussing compliancy
Aug 18 13:17:43 <hpk> (but feel free to object)
Aug 18 13:17:54 <hpk> and then there is the topic of preparing the release
Aug 18 13:18:07 <hpk> i'd like to work the "little" issues out early on during the sprint
Aug 18 13:18:15 <hpk> to not get into too much of a rush in the end
Aug 18 13:18:17 <pedronis> and isolating refcounting
Aug 18 13:18:25 <pedronis> + cfbolz GC work
Aug 18 13:18:40 <cfbolz> although that is not really a release issue
Aug 18 13:18:52 <pedronis> the isolating refcount is
Aug 18 13:19:07 <pedronis> the fact that you still have GC work is related to the sprint, not the release
Aug 18 13:19:16 <cfbolz> yes of course
Aug 18 13:19:20 <hpk> yes, i think it makes sense to start off with that as well
Aug 18 13:19:38 <arigo> I agree
Aug 18 13:19:40 <hpk> so we have a compliancy and a GC track and maybe two people thinking a bit about the release
Aug 18 13:20:01 <hpk> then what about llvm?
Aug 18 13:20:21 <cfbolz> the llvm people are not here :-(
Aug 18 13:20:26 <hpk> we obviously don't have richard and eric here but they are going to be at the sprint
Aug 18 13:20:33 <hpk> does someone know the status?
Aug 18 13:20:41 <cfbolz> they compiled PyPy yesterday
Aug 18 13:20:49 <cfbolz> some external functions are still missing
Aug 18 13:21:04 <cfbolz> I think Richard and Eric will want to work on it
Aug 18 13:21:07 <arigo> yes, their pypy-dev mail hints that they'd like to continue to work on it
Aug 18 13:21:14 <hpk> yes, makes sense i think
Aug 18 13:21:32 <cfbolz> Richard said that he would like to think about consolidating the backends a bit
Aug 18 13:21:34 <hpk> then we will probably also have parsing/compiling issues?
Aug 18 13:21:40 <hpk> (i am a bit out of loop, can anyone help?)
Aug 18 13:21:57 <pedronis> yes, also a quite a bit of compliance failures are related to compile
Aug 18 13:22:29 <pedronis> from different error messages, to __future__ not working and such subtle issues
Aug 18 13:22:29 <arigo> hpk: I think that the ST->AST transformer is done and they are RPythonifying it
Aug 18 13:23:02 <hpk> ok, that will be an ongoing topic as well then i guess
Aug 18 13:23:17 <arigo> so there are two fronts here, fixing bugs and progressing on moving the compiler to interp-level
Aug 18 13:23:19 <hpk> actually i'd like pedronis or arigo to prepare the "heidelberg-planning" document for monday morning a bit
Aug 18 13:23:31 <arigo> we can suggest a focus on the 1st front for the next sprint
Aug 18 13:23:38 <aleale> how about _weakref?
Aug 18 13:24:00 <cfbolz> aleale: could be related to my GC stuff, but I think it is too advanced
Aug 18 13:24:47 <arigo> do we agree to ignore weakrefs for now?
Aug 18 13:25:04 <aleale> sure
Aug 18 13:25:13 <cfbolz> very good
Aug 18 13:25:25 * cfbolz notes that we have 5 min left
Aug 18 13:25:29 <hpk> i think it's ok to ignore it
Aug 18 13:25:29 <arigo> I mean with respect to what we promized to the EU
Aug 18 13:25:41 <arigo> ok
Aug 18 13:25:57 <hpk> yes, we should sit together monday evening or so and go through the eu deliverables again
Aug 18 13:26:03 <hpk> in a physical sit-together
Aug 18 13:26:07 <pedronis> I think apart errno we have most of the core builtin modules
Aug 18 13:26:21 <hpk> and errno shoulnd't be too hard modulo platform problems
Aug 18 13:26:43 <hpk> (and i still hold that working on all platforms is not a EU-related goal)
Aug 18 13:26:49 <arigo> yes, for now we can hard-code the errno constants from the underlying CPython's constants
Aug 18 13:26:52 <pedronis> we should think about documentation and documents also
Aug 18 13:27:09 <hpk> right, that's the release focus for one, the eu-related docuemnts are still a different issue
Aug 18 13:27:13 * hpk notes three minutes left
Aug 18 13:27:15 <arigo> right
Aug 18 13:27:36 <hpk> arigo, pedronis: may i repeat my question if one of you could make a list of basic issues and put them into heidelberg-planning.txt ?
Aug 18 13:27:42 <hpk> (using this session as an input)
Aug 18 13:27:57 <hpk> it's good to have a starting base and then go through it at the sprint
Aug 18 13:27:59 <arigo> pedronis: can I pong this to you?
Aug 18 13:28:07 <arigo> it's going to be a busy week-end for me
Aug 18 13:28:22 <pedronis> hpk: bea sent a mail that the PO made some noises about "EU-packaged" deliverables
Aug 18 13:28:36 <pedronis> hpk: I can write a basic list
Aug 18 13:28:36 <hpk> can we discuss this off-this-channel?
Aug 18 13:28:42 <pedronis> hpk: yes
Aug 18 13:28:43 <hpk> pedronis: great, i can helpw ith it
Aug 18 13:29:00 <hpk> ok, then we have an idea (which will evolve during the sprint anyway)
Aug 18 13:29:13 <arigo> thanks
Aug 18 13:29:18 <hpk> so i guess we should close the meeting for now and look forward for meeting in three days and have a beer together!
Aug 18 13:29:24 <cfbolz> :-)
Aug 18 13:29:34 <aleale> see you
Aug 18 13:29:53 <hpk> see you
Aug 18 13:29:55 <arigo> see you
Aug 18 13:29:56 <cfbolz> bye