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SCons / BugParty / IrcLog2008-10-01

16:50:28  *      garyo-home (n=[chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com](mailto:chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com)) has joined #scons 
17:58:21  *      stevenknight (n=[stevenkn@69.36.227.130](mailto:stevenkn@69.36.227.130)) has joined #scons 
17:58:47  <stevenknight> hey all 
17:59:09  <garyo-home>   Hi Steven; I' 
17:59:11  <garyo-home>   m here 
17:59:40  <garyo-home>   I've been working on a SCons talk for end of next week.  I'll share it when I'm done. 
17:59:48  <stevenknight> cool 
18:00:08  <stevenknight> i've got slides from about three talks that i need to make public 
18:00:18  <stevenknight> iirc you asked me for some awhile back and i never got back to you... :-( 
18:00:26  <garyo-home>   true... 
18:00:51  <garyo-home>   if you have any you'd like to send my way feel free, though at this point i think I have enough (about 26 slides for an hour talk) 
18:00:56  *      [GregNoel](GregNoel) is no longer marked as being away 
18:01:11  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hi, I'm here... 
18:01:16  <garyo-home>   Hi, Greg. 
18:01:21  <stevenknight> hi greg 
18:01:26  <stevenknight> garyo:  what's the audience? 
18:02:02  <garyo-home>   about 20 people, small company developers.  It's a group of companies under the same investor umbrella. 
18:02:17  <stevenknight> actually, we should probably start, i'm on the shuttle but only for ~30 more minutes 
18:02:26  <stevenknight> garyo-home:  so kind of a general intro? 
18:02:27  <garyo-home>   ok I'm ready. 
18:02:39  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2201 
18:02:46  <garyo-home>   yes, intro but technical.  Focus on cross-platform.  Yes, 2201. 
18:03:12  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Steven says invalid, but I don't know his reasons. 
18:03:00  <stevenknight> 2201:  consensus invalid?  jean can re-open if he comes up with a case 
18:03:18  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ah 
18:03:12  <garyo-home>   yes. 
18:03:22  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ok, done 
18:03:32  <stevenknight> i was going from your comment, actually 
18:03:34  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2217: Gary, how does one 'wrap things up with subprocess' when it's a Python action?  External commands can use subprocess, I expect, but I don't see how to do it with a Python action. 
18:03:37  <stevenknight> 2217:  consensus wontfix 
18:04:14  <garyo-home>   2217: right, subproc would only work to fork external actions.  No way to multiprocess pure python. 
18:04:23  <garyo-home>   Especially with chdir! 
18:04:04  <stevenknight> i think you could do it by forking a process for each worker thread 
18:04:25  <stevenknight> and sending some indication to "execute this python action" 
18:04:35  <stevenknight> but it would be really hairy to work out the details 
18:04:37  <stevenknight> and not worth it 
18:04:41  <garyo-home>   right, not worth it! 
18:04:47  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     concur 
18:04:48  <stevenknight> agree re: especially chdir 
18:04:51  <stevenknight> okay, done 
18:05:00  <garyo-home>   2219, I did it 
18:05:04  <stevenknight> 2219:  garyo++ 
18:05:11  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ditto 
18:05:14  <garyo-home>   thx 
18:05:21  <garyo-home>   too cool to pass up 
18:05:21  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2220 
18:05:21  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Gary, unfortunately, Repository() won't map subdirectories; it only maps some directory to the top of the build.  And I'm pretty sure it's not working as designed; it certainly surprised me. 
18:05:21  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Steven, maybe I have a convert's fervor, but you did such a good job of convincing me, that I don't believe that Repository() is sufficient for all cases.  The case of a variant in a repository is the killer; the search order is context-dependent. 
18:05:21  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     (If you want to propose some new mechanism, I'll be happy to shoot holes in it... {;-}) 
18:05:21  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     It's easy enough to characterize what happened: add a source/foo.c and try to build it as Object('generate/foo.c').  SCons removes it before trying to build it.  That is, SCons is treating it like a target, even though there's no source in the 'include' directory. 
18:05:21  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I can add the failing SConstruct to the issue or create a new issue if you want. 
18:05:25  <garyo-home>   2220? 
18:06:06  <stevenknight> Greg:  cool, please add th failing SConstruct 
18:06:10  <stevenknight> let me research 
18:06:23  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, research, Steven? 
18:06:25  <garyo-home>   sounds like consensus to me 
18:06:41  <stevenknight> the approach we've had success with on the Chromium (a.k.a. Google Chrome) build is to use addRepository() (internal method) 
18:07:06  <stevenknight> to hook up "source" directories to arbitrary build directories 
18:06:54  <garyo-home>   Chrome is using scons? 
18:07:05  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Why else would they hire him? {;-} 
18:07:17  <stevenknight> yes, Chrome is using SCons 
18:07:28  <stevenknight> although the current release version is still pure Visual Studio 
18:07:25  <garyo-home>   can I say that in my talk? 
18:07:47  <stevenknight> yes, it's public knowledge (it's even in wikipedia!) 
18:07:59  <stevenknight> (and they wouldn't let them put it there if it weren't true!) 
18:08:08  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     suuuuuure 
18:08:11  <garyo-home>   :-/ 
18:08:24  <stevenknight> Google Earth is also built with SCons 
18:08:31  <garyo-home>   nice! 
18:08:44  <garyo-home>   ok, 2221? 
18:08:55  <stevenknight> pretty much all Google client-side apps are or will be SCons 
18:09:08  <stevenknight> ("client-side" == Google for "runs on the user's system, not on a server") 
18:09:15  <garyo-home>   yup, I got that. 
18:09:24  <stevenknight> it threw me when i got here 
18:09:19  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2221, I see 2145 is already assigned to Steven for research; shall I assume that both of them should be set to 1.2 p3?  (It would clear off one of your pending research issues, Steven...) 
18:09:25  <stevenknight> anyway 
18:09:33  <stevenknight> yes, 1.2 p3 
18:09:44  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ok, done 
18:10:06  <stevenknight> 2222: 
18:10:17  <garyo-home>   2222: mark me as cc and I'll watch it. 
18:10:25  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
18:10:35  <stevenknight> done 
18:10:39  <garyo-home>   (I'll have to make sure my issue query finds issues w/ me as cc...) 
18:11:14  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     If it doesn't, the [BugSchedule](BugSchedule) query does. 
18:11:18  <garyo-home>   2223: seems like David was working on this on the ML.  Side effects might be the way to go? 
18:11:32  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2223, consensus David, but when? 
18:11:23  <stevenknight> 2223:  2.x, p2, david? 
18:11:34  <garyo-home>   I'm fine w/ that. 
18:11:41  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
18:11:43  <garyo-home>   2.x p2 fine w/ me 
18:12:04  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2224 
18:12:09  <stevenknight> 2224:  1.2 p2 david 
18:12:11  <garyo-home>   2224: grr I need to get my buildbot vm up.  I'll try vs_revamp on another windows machine soon. 
18:12:22  <garyo-home>   yes, 1.2 p2 david. 
18:12:27  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
18:12:42  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     And that's the current spreadsheet! 
18:12:24  <stevenknight> you'll probably run into the problems i had 
18:12:32  <stevenknight> and the reasons he withdrew it from 1.1 
18:12:46  <stevenknight> the other tool modules like mslink still call old code to find and set versions 
18:12:50  <stevenknight> and that gums up his stuff 
18:12:56  <stevenknight> i don't think it'll be too bad to fix 
18:13:11  <garyo-home>   I'll see if I can help, I think it's important. 
18:13:19  <stevenknight> agreed re: important 
18:13:22  <garyo-home>   Just need to get a clean windows box to work on. 
18:13:35  <stevenknight> 1.1 is about to go release candidate, though, hence 1.2 
18:13:42  <stevenknight> (should have RC'ed already...) 
18:13:42  <garyo-home>   yes, that's OK. 
18:13:59  <stevenknight> on to 2005? 
18:14:06  <stevenknight> as in 2005[hq]x? 
18:14:09  <garyo-home>   Too bad about my 1.1 issues... all will get deferred to 1.2. 
18:14:15  <stevenknight> mine too 
18:14:22  <garyo-home>   I can't edit the 2005h2 ssheet, but others are fine. 
18:14:33  <stevenknight> i had editing problems too 
18:14:50  <stevenknight> i was able to edit 2005q1 
18:15:25  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     The "share" toggle wasn't selected, although I've checked on it before; I set it now for sure, so it should be OK 
18:15:36  <garyo-home>   I don't think I can edit any of them, I'll try again now. 
18:15:53  <stevenknight> [GregNoel](GregNoel):  i did get in to 2005h2 shortly before the meeting, thanks 
18:16:03  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     make sure you follow the "edit" link _first_ 
18:17:04  <garyo-home>   well, doesn't work for me yet, but that's OK for now, let's look at a few of them. 
18:17:18  <stevenknight> i have less than 10 minutes (closer to five), since we haven't pre-edited how can we make best use of the time? 
18:17:34  <garyo-home>   we're doing h2, right? 
18:17:39  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     yes 
18:17:42  <stevenknight> 2005h2 yes 
18:17:54  <garyo-home>   I agree w/ you guys on the first 2 
18:18:08  <garyo-home>   1259, 1209 
18:18:15  <stevenknight> okay, 1259:  worksforme done 
18:18:26  <stevenknight> 1209:  dup 324, done 
18:18:35  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Steven, should we move the schedule to Mondays? 
18:18:44  <stevenknight> 1210:  i agree w/research 
18:18:47  <stevenknight> schedule: 
18:18:55  <stevenknight> sorry, i should have weighed in 
18:19:09  <stevenknight> day of the week is less an issue for me than time 
18:19:14  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     1210, but who? 
18:19:29  <stevenknight> i have to get on the shuttle ~17:15-17:30 PDT 
18:19:36  <stevenknight> and off ~18:30-19:00 PDT 
18:19:56  <stevenknight> i've started biking to/from the shuttle, so it's 30 minutes off-line 
18:19:57  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I meant the release schedule: from Sat to Mon 
18:20:04  <stevenknight> oh! 
18:20:08  <stevenknight> heh 
18:20:15  <stevenknight> yes, Monday for those 
18:20:38  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, I'll update the roadmap page 
18:20:51  <garyo-home>   1210: I think it should be low priority, but research means look into it now.  I vote *not* research but 2.x or something 
18:21:00  <stevenknight> 1210:  i'd rather it be someone else 
18:21:22  <stevenknight> i think it needs some thinking unencumbered by my knowledge of the Dir node code 
18:21:39  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     (We'll have to slip 1.1 by a few days) 
18:21:47  <stevenknight> right re: 1.1 slip 
18:21:59  <stevenknight> 1210:  shall we see if bill can take it? 
18:22:04  <garyo-home>   Probably just look at the dir after each removal, and if dir is empty and under a build dir, remove dir. 
18:22:12  <garyo-home>   (after each FILE removal, sorry) 
18:22:52  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     You'd have to keep track of whether it was both a build dir and a src dir 
18:23:11  <garyo-home>   1210: I don't think it's important enough to assign a resource now.  (And Greg: yes, there are complications.  I'm not voluteering...) 
18:23:19  <stevenknight> right, and since so much dir behavior is implicit, 
18:23:39  <stevenknight> figuring out what is or isn't "build dir" vs. "src dir" has the potential for odd heuristics 
18:23:50  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Since Steven is about to turn into a pumpkin, this is a bad time to be designing. 
18:23:55  <stevenknight> 1210:  2.x, future draft pick 
18:24:01  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
18:24:43  <stevenknight> 1213:  research (decide if it's still a problem) 
18:24:50  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     1213, bypass for today? 
18:24:56  <garyo-home>   Yes, I'll research that one (1213) 
18:24:57  <stevenknight> sure, bypass 
18:25:03  <stevenknight> er, i meant, garyo! 
18:25:04  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     which? 
18:25:09  <stevenknight> 1213 
18:25:15  <stevenknight> 1213 garyo, done 
18:25:16  <garyo-home>   I'll look at it. 
18:25:18  <garyo-home>   quick test. 
18:25:26  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ok, garyo, research 
18:25:33  <stevenknight> 8:  greg, you want it to see the -include in CCFLAGS and deduce the dependency? 
18:25:59  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     yes 
18:25:56  <stevenknight> there's another issue i just looked at that takes the other approach, 
18:26:04  <stevenknight> adding a *FORCEINCLUDE variable 
18:26:12  <stevenknight> that you set and then it adds the -include flag to the command line 
18:26:19  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     hmmm.... 
18:26:21  <stevenknight> like we do with CPPPATH and -I options e.g. 
18:26:26  <stevenknight> i think that's more "sconsy" 
18:26:37  <garyo-home>   Agree w/ steven 
18:26:50  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Would have to be parsed by [MergeFlags](MergeFlags)()... 
18:27:11  <garyo-home>   I don't like looking at cmd lines to figure out deps 
18:26:57  <stevenknight> okay, fifteen seconds... 
18:27:02  <stevenknight> agreed re: [MergeFlags](MergeFlags)() 
18:27:08  <stevenknight> two weeks from now, I assume 
18:27:14  <stevenknight> for next meeting 
18:27:15  <garyo-home>   ok see you then! 
18:27:16  <stevenknight> later guys... 
18:27:18  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     bye 
18:27:20  *      stevenknight has quit ("Leaving") 
18:27:21  <garyo-home>   bye 
18:27:26  <garyo-home>   well that was short. 
18:27:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Yeah, but we cleared the current issues 
18:27:50  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I guess the meeting time is still a work in progress 
18:27:58  <garyo-home>   Greg, would you like to help me edit the 2006h2 sshet?  Send me a direct invite or something? 
18:28:16  <garyo-home>   Yes, time is a little early for me but we're hoping to get some Euro zone folks maybe? 
18:28:27  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ok, I'll do that.  I'd really like to figure out why it's failing. 
18:28:44  <garyo-home>   The current issue sheet I never have any trouble with. 
18:29:00  <garyo-home>   But 2006h2 has never worked for me ever. 
18:29:02  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I know there's a _long_ timeout if you view it and just close the page 
18:29:33  <garyo-home>   Could be it, but I don't think so. 
18:29:42  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     without going through the file->close selection, I mean 
18:30:33  <garyo-home>   Yes, I know.  (Just to be clear I'm talking about 200*5*h2 even though I said '06 above) 
18:31:13  <garyo-home>   Maybe a direct invite will work. 
18:31:28  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I'll send you an individual invitation and we'll see if that works.  (I wonder if invitations age?  That's from six months ago...) 
18:31:39  <garyo-home>   Could be. 
18:32:00  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, I'll do that 
18:32:09  <garyo-home>   OK, well if we're done for now maybe I'll try to make some progress on a bug or two.  And I'll add that doc line you were asking for :-) 
18:33:05  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Yes...  Strangely enough, I wanted a rule like he described, and was annoyed that there was no way to do it.  This was a most elegant solution and should be documented. 
18:33:57  <garyo-home>   Will do.  See you on the ML... 
18:34:06  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     G'night 
18:34:10  <garyo-home>   bye now 
18:34:15  *      [GregNoel](GregNoel) has been marked as being away 
19:54:41  *      garyo-home has quit ("[ChatZilla](ChatZilla) 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]") 

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