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Issue #8629 resolved

Harassing Repository

Anonymous created an issue

This repository is obviously set up to target people who don't agree with the people running the repository. It sends a message that the people running it have the time and inclination to spend on harassment campaigns against others who are already in a precarious position solely by virtue of being women, regardless of skill or career, as evidenced by the number of people driven out of STEM every day by campaigns such as this:

https://bitbucket.org/FeministSoftwareFoundation/c-plus-equality

Comments (139)

  1. Mateusz Kowalczyk

    This issue is obviously set up to target people who don't agree with the people opening the issue. It sends a message that the people opening it have the time and inclination to spend on harassment campaigns against others who are already in a precarious position solely by virtue of not being women, regardless of skill or career, as evidenced by the number of people driven out of code hosting sites every day by campaigns such as this:

    https://bitbucket.org/site/master/issue/8629/harassing-repository

    protip: no one is forcing you to look at it

  2. Robert Rouse

    Mateusz Kowalczyk The repository in question violates the TOS as written. If you look at the commit history, it's plain to see that it's intended to be harassment. While no one is "forcing" anyone to look at the repository, people know it's there and what it's for, so there's nothing redeeming about that repository.

    If you try to treat it as satire, it's not even good satire.

  3. svenjohan90

    Robert Rouse Well that's certainly not true...! intended to be harassment in order for something to be harassment, it needs to be targeted towards a NAMED organization or person. And in a way that disrupts them from their day-to-day activities, at the very least. it's not even good satire. Oh, now THAT is definitely not true. This is the first time I can think of where a "proposal for a programming language" has been the vehicle for making political statements. I'm impressed by that uniqueness alone.

  4. Mateusz Kowalczyk

    Robert Rouse As svenjohan90 points out, it doesn't seem to violate the TOS at all so that argument is not valid and just on this basis, BitBucket staff should have just closed the issue and called it a day. What they'll actually do is up to their discretion but it certainly shouldn't be for TOS violation.

    While no one is "forcing" anyone to look at the repository, people know it's there and what it's for, so there's nothing redeeming about that repository.

    There's nothing redeeming about very large majority of repositories owned by the community being upset about this and somehow I don't see multitude of issues being open against those urging for their removal. If you feel something is making mockery of your community, perhaps respond accordingly instead of running off trying to stifle it.

    We're all adults and just because it's very easy nowadays to contact involved organisations directly, doesn't mean you should or that they are obliged to do anything about it. Personally I'd be very disappointed if some repository got taken down just because a bunch of people are crying about it on Twitter.

    If you try to treat it as satire, it's not even good satire.

    Sure sounds like personal opinion.

    This is all I wanted to say. I honestly do not care that enough to get in full-blown arguments over this further than I already have. I just thought that I'll mock the original post to show how simple it is to scream and cry over something on the Internet without actually doing anything about it. Perhaps the time spent throwing a fit about this should be spent writing software instead.

  5. Robert Rouse

    Mateusz Kowalczyk Fair enough, I do not see the part of the TOS that svenjohan90 mentioned. I only saw the bit about harassment as a whole, not that it required to be against a specific person. If that's in there fine, I stand corrected on the TOS violation part.

    And yes, my statement on it being not good satire is my opinion. That I will concede.

  6. Anonymous

    So the repository is back up and we're endorsing blatant harassment in the name of protecting people upset that people are being called out on seriously misogynistic content?

  7. Johnny Ruse

    From what it looks like. The people that are working on this are taking it completely seriously. There's pages of documentation explaining the project already. I don't see any harassment in this at all. To me looks like you're the one harassing the women of this project to take it down.

  8. Luke Maciak

    The repository is clearly abusive and keeping it open reflects really badly on BitBucket. Please advise the legal team to take immediate action. A mirror of the same hateful content was posted to GitHub earlier today and promptly removed by their team. I hope BitBucket has similarly strong stance on abuse.

  9. FeministSoftwareFoundation

    Perhaps people can be hackers again, and not code monkeys that spew politial polemics as a knee-jerk reaction.

    'Tis naught but the reader's fault to find such sincere offence from such self-evidently flippant text as README file hosted on the Internet. How on Earth can people construe some inactive strings of text parodying a specific subset of an ideology can somehow actively 'harrass' certain female individuals is beyond every member of our Foundation.

    Oh how much I long for the days when grown-ups are mature human beings. Methinks you all have an axe to grind when it comes to witch-hunting the misognist strawman.

  10. Johnny Ruse

    Since no one has given one example as of yet, how exactly is this repository harassing people? Keep in mind that "harassment" doesn't mean "Things I don't like".

  11. requirefem

    I don't quite understand how this is harassing anybody. It is clear that some individuals have some political agenda to push, and somehow this agenda is feigning that 'people' are being 'harassed'. Who is personally being harassed here? Why is it fair that a political agenda should deny hackers and coders to host their project here?

  12. jacalata

    Johnny, I am pretty sure they are not taking it seriously: imgur.com/a/kzglk Maybe bitbucket should delete it under their clause 'we reserve the right to delete whatever we want' and then add a paragraph to the TOS that says 'obvious troll is not welcome'.

  13. FeministSoftwareFoundation

    Spoofed commits should be dealt with at the source of the problem: the spoofing user who sends the pull requests, and not the repository.

    It is not the responsibility of the project leader to scrutinise and verify the identity of every submiter's identity. The project leader has no legal right nor responsibility to do so, and to insist so would bring the project leader into trouble as it will be an invasion of privacy of the commiter.

  14. Johnny Ruse

    jacalata, are you trying to say that bitbucket should ignore their own terms of service and retroactively remove a repository due to a rule that could be made in the future? You also seem to be labeling this project as a troll, but in fact it can be said it's a political statement being expressed through the means of satire and parody. Censoring this political statement would conflict with the basic ethical standards of modern day society. To anyone claiming that this repository should be taken down on terms of harassment, you have yet to answer the question of how it's harassing anyone. You are making claims, but do not have the means to back them up.

  15. Anonymous

    Actually repository owners are responsible for vetting commits, and by accepting obviously fraudlent commits there's no doubt that there's some complictness there. Since the repository was suspended, BitBucket is willing to exercise editorial control. The repository was using BitBucket's name both before and after their reinstatement, and that does imply that BitBucket is willing to endorse their message.

  16. Johnny Ruse

    Or it's implying that BitBucket doesn't discriminate due to political belief, or it's implying that Bitbucket honors basic ethical concepts and realizes the importance of unfiltered speech. The United States allows the KKK to have parades and express their views freely, does that mean That the US also endorses racism?

  17. Anonymous

    Actually BitBucket isn't covered by the First Amendment, not being a government agency, so they are under no obligation to allow their platform to be used for harassment, especially when it's being done in their name. Allowing it to continue in their name, however, after showing that they're also willing to exercise editorial control (which their ToS also states), does imply they do accept the philosophy and harassment as if they were doing it themselves. Welcome to actual Media Law folks. It's not as subtle as Libertarians and Republicans would like you to believe.

  18. Anonymous

    No, that's fraud. Even worse. And also actually not legal. And since I'm assuming this is crossing state lines it's probably even FBI jurisdiction.

  19. Anonymous

    Fraud is still fraud, and the one who actually needs to take a serious look is you since you're the defrauding people knowingly (you did just admit to it). How I feel is completely irrelevant here, even if you do want to play good dudebro tone police.

  20. Johnny Ruse

    Evan, you completely missed my point. Just because the site is allowing this repository to carry on with it's political message does not mean it's supporting it's message. It seems like your ideal site would mimic certain communist political figures who would weed out anyone who didn't agree with their beliefs. And once again, for the third time, point to one viable example of harassment.

  21. Anonymous

    Actually I didn't miss any point. You actually did miss mine though, so thanks for the tip.

  22. Anonymous

    I can see where this is going. Bitbucket, you know what the right thing to do is so don't let these obvious trolls lower you to the 4chan level. Also know that if you continue to endorse the message of these people committing fraud and harassment in your name I'll cease recommending your services, cease hosting my content with you, and move on.

  23. Johnny Ruse

    "Actually BitBucket isn't covered by the First Amendment, not being a government agency, so they are under no obligation to allow their platform to be used for harassment, especially when it's being done in their name."

    I didn't imply any of that at all. All I did was use a example of the U.S. allowing freedom of speech.

    "Allowing it to continue in their name, however, after showing that they're also willing to exercise editorial control (which their ToS also states), does imply they do accept the philosophy and harassment as if they were doing it themselves."

    No it does not. Bitbucket has not announced any political view on this subject. All they did was allow the basic ethical right of freedom of speech, something that you seem to deny.

    And for the fourth time, where is there any harassment? Your arguments are very shallow.

  24. FeministSoftwareFoundation

    Evan, are you threatening BitBucket?

    I mean that's pretty much blackmailing right there. I suggest you delete or edit your previous comments, because by allowing them to be posted there implicitly means that BitBucket endores blackmailing.

  25. FeministSoftwareFoundation

    We hope that Atlassian doesn't give in to the demands of someone that wants to censor thoughtful satire through coercion and threats. Writing code is a form of creative expression and it shouldn't be muted just because the software being written is controversial.

  26. Lloyd Swiang

    The repository in question does in fact look like a parody to me, not harassment, based on a blog post that was intended to introduce these ideas into public discourse thus making them "fair game."

    Nor do I see anything in the bitbucket TOS covering such a use of the service. Looks like the legals never thought it would happen, and don't have clear authority to take it down.

    I do see 8 or 10 paragraphs saying you can't sue them, however.

  27. Anonymous

    Anyway, congratulations to Atlassian for letting the trolls keep their accounts. I'm out.

  28. Cao Cao

    As a repository with quite a few contributors, it holds privilege. And how does it use this privilege? It makes a mockery of the enlightened conversation about creating a sorely needed feminist programming language. Further, bitbucket is available world wide and is hosted on a nation-agnostic domain extension. The repository is thus a tool of the patriarchy to programmatically rape women on a global scale. A high tech atrocity of prejudice and power. Does bitbucket really want to be an accomplice in such an insane act of bigotry?

  29. Karen Romero

    As a programmer, woman and partial feminist I really don't see the problem here. Sure, some people might not be interested in this but that doesn't mean that the people who are interested shouldn't have the right to work on it. It's not like you're forced to be involved with this project, you want to use C? Sure, use C but don't bash people for having their own philosophies. I think freedom of speech is extremely important and needs to be kept that way, so many people are stopping others from being allowed to say anything by just saying "hey, I'm offended by that so you can't say it any more" and I'm not going to stand for it.

    Keep this project up Bitbucket! No party should be allowed to govern what people have the right to say, where is the line? Otherwise shouldn't I be allowed to shut down ANY project hosted on here because "I don't like it"?

  30. Mishumanist

    Karen Romero: As someone who both simultaneously agrees and disagrees with some of the ideas presented in this repository, I would like to thank you for having the sense to value free speech above your own ideals. In a society with diverse viewpoints, it is unhealthy to promote chilling effects or censorship, because this only incites anger and polarization, and completely destroys intelligent discussion. Censoring this repository would do more harm than good.

  31. Anonymous

    Please tell me Cao Cao, how does that repository "is thus a tool of the patriarchy to programmatically rape women on a global scale"? Can you prove your claims? Accusing people that they promote ``rape'' is something serious and I would like to ask you to delete your post if you can't prove it. Thanks

    Finaly, I'm a girl myself and I see nothing wrong with this repository

  32. John B

    I'm very worried by the arguments in favor of taking it down. Yes, it's satire. Yes, we may dislike it because it targets a cause that we are in favor of.

    However, the day we start censoring satire will be a dark day for the internet. This reminds me of the way the Church responded to the "Life of Brian" and various other comedy they objected to.

    As a feminist sympathiser myself, I'm quite upset that some of us seem to be acting like an organised religion.

  33. joseph_young

    Soooooo wait.

    People want to remove this repository on the grounds that it MIGHT be satire? It's sounding to me that it's doing a lot more for feminism than anything else simply by prompting it's discussion. I don't think it should be removed as long as it's not outright insulting of other people.

  34. joseph_young

    Actually, further reading into the project yields some interesting goals and expectations of the project. Below are my favorites:

    The code only runs if it is in a public repo. Forced program termination is not allowed unless the program consents to it. we have 0s and Os as our fundamental binary logic gates (where 0 = 0 and O = 0 or 1)

    I don't care whether or not the completed project is functional at all, I hope there are actually people wanting to work on this.

  35. paul09w

    There's a vocal minority complaining about this. Go to Slashdot/reddit/any other website and you'll see that there are a lot of people contemplating moving from github to bitbucket due to the former's censorship. Seize this business opportunity by not shutting down a harmless hobby project.

  36. NJPWIe3b3fp

    BitBucket is an awesome site, my teacher made us create accounts here so we could work on the project we had and he could monitor our progress. Since then I fell in love with the site. (This is not my business account.) And I'm glad this joke made people aware of BitBucket. Keep up the great work fellas!

  37. James Russell

    I can't seem to understand how people feel harassed because they disagree with something. The only way I could see a git repository harassing someone is if people made code that sent specific people harassing messages, or instructed others to do the same, or something of that nature. I don't agree with the way one project has its comments arranged, and it's harassing me. Can you shut it down please?

  38. C Light

    This is ridiculous, it's clearly a joke. Some people simply can't take it.

    I highly doubt that any repo on bitbucket is going to go a long way to enforce a "rape culture" or oppress women. Maybe everyone should simply move on?

  39. Samurai Ken

    It is my sincere hope that Bitbucket can handle some parody and humor. The repo in question is not obscene, abusive, threatening or calling for harm. Further, wrapped within the satire are some interesting thoughts exploring alternative syntactic constructions.

    More than that though, Bitbucket should understand that many in the industry are frankly dismayed by how easily Github was persuaded to blow away the repository of a project based solely on a small number of complaints organised as part of a campaign that actually IS harassment and actively attacking the project.

    Given this action by Github, you have to wonder what else they will do - what other projects representing years of work - they will disable because someone, somewhere, managed to get offended. The code for a political campaign tool that happens to be run by the "wrong" candidates? How about a web tool that is also used by a major brand that happens to have the ire of some political action group? There is simply no way to trust your work to Github any more.

    While obviously Bitbucket has the discretion to deny their services, it is hoped that they retain the necessary integrity and humor to be a home for developers, instead of a potential enemy as soon as the PR wind blows wrong.

    Come on Bitbucket, don't let us down. Show us we can trust you with our code, that you stand for the project author, not just your public image. This tempest will blow over - there will be meaningless calls for a "boycott" and all sorts of other fanfare but in the end, watch your numbers. You will gain far more support and traction by showing integrity than the professional victims will cost you.

  40. Anonymous

    I would like to vote +1 for the non-censorship option.

    What I would like to see is some of the greatest female programmers create a response to this, something like Bro-script or Bro-ssembly. Get some publicity, and boost the profile of female programmers. Make it as manly as possible (having both false and true returns 1, unless the function try/catches bro-flu, in which case it has to be 0). I'm a guy, that sounds hilarious to me!

    I think it's a missed opportunity to show that, golly gee, women can actually code.

  41. Anonymous

    "The repo in question is not obscene, abusive, threatening or calling for harm"

    Yeah, right.

    1. void set(trans value) {post_on_tumblr trigger("FORCING AN IDENTITY DOWN MY THROAT, RAPE, RAPE, RAPE, RAPE, RAPE\n");}
    2. printf(); == yell();
    3. This language endorses the use of consider_jump, which is a proper implementation of the oppressive "goto" and serves as advice on what to do next.
    4. Creating fake accounts of software feminists and impersonating them.

    There's your abusive language and threatening words, in case you needed it spelled out for you. Forget misogyny; this is offensive to humanity as a whole. The fact that people are actually defending this disgusting trivialization of rape and telling feminists to commit suicide is appalling.

    I hope this changes your mind, Atlassian. You could cater to the abusive MRA fanatics and neo-nazis hiding behind their misinterpretation of the first amendment, or you could do the only sane thing in the 21st century and shut these scumbags down.

    P.S. Karen Romero is probably a spoof account that was created two days ago by the 4chan trolls. Check your IP log.

  42. John B

    Oh come on, that is ridiculous.

    Clearly they are not mocking actual rape victims, they are mocking activists who use rape as political hyperbole. To be honest, they have a point; this is one of my least favorite things about feminists today. Using rape as a political weapon to condemn everything you don't like does a disservice to real victims. And you are doing it now.

    As for "consider_jump"....How often has "kill yourself" been used as a comedy prop by satirists throughout the years? A heck of a lot of times. Jon Stewart uses it. Jimmy Carr uses it. George Carlin used it.

    You're viewing it as something serious and threatening and non-comedic because you've convinced yourself that you are fighting evil. But you are not fighting evil. You are fighting internet pranksters.

    • "the only sane thing in the 21st century and shut these scumbags down."

    The "only sane thing" is to remove legitimate code to appease angry political activists? I think we have different definitions of sanity.

    Look, there are serious issues in the world for feminism to tackle. There are countries where women aren't allowed to drive, vote, or go to school. FGM is still rampant in huge sections of the world. So is forced marriage.

    Those are the feminist causes I believe in. Not shutting down satire on the internet.

    Claiming that jokes are harassment and that pranksters are neo-nazis is exactly the kind of nonsense that makes feminists look like authoritarian lunatics. In fact, it's probably what gave rise to the repo in the first place.

  43. Anonymous

    I'm not going to address anything in the previous post, because I think the absurdity of the responses speak for themselves. Instead, I'll focus on the fact that most of the profiles on this thread are likely fake and created by the "Feminist Software Foundation", given that they were all created two days ago -- including yours, Jon B. Karen Romero's twitter account was also created two days ago with the sole purpose of having a female who supports the repo:

    https://twitter.com/Karen_B_Romero

    Find something more productive to do with your time, you lonely troll.

  44. John B

    I did create my account recently, you're right. I learned of the issue through a friend's twitter feed and took an interest - as, I suspect, did you. I thought the issue was important. Is there a problem with that?

    I cannot speak for Karen or any of the other accounts as I do not know them. However, you cannot simply wish away all your critics with the magic ad hominem of "troll". Some of us have things to say, and will continue saying them. Some of us are even feminists - real ones, not internet troll-hunters.

  45. C Light

    By refusing to address John B's post you're painting a picture of someone who cannot refute the points raised.

    As someone who supports gender equality, I would ask that you take a step back and look at what you're claiming. That is, a satirical repository that plays on various stereotypes of small group of feminists (and not feminism or women as a whole) is somehow causing people to consider suicide or raping women.

    In addition I have to say I found it amusing that you call others trolls and act as if you've transcended to some mythical plane of existence where you cannot be trolled and are above all trolling when you've clearly fallen for the commenter on a blog impersonating as a neo-nazi to get a rise out of people on the internet then coming back here and forcing an association between people who do not agree with your opinions and antisemitism.

    The real victims here are the bitbucket staff for having to put up with their service being turned into a platform for a flame war.

  46. Samurai Ken

    It must be very convenient for a particular type of activist that they can use the most violent language (screaming "RAPE" or accusing others of rape) so that if you if even comment on what they say, they can pint at you and yell "he said rape!").

    That is what is happening here. To comment or parody them is, in their minds, to attack them. That this is not true is of no consequence, all they need to do is what they are trying to do here... make it so messy, so contentious and so impossible to carry on normal discourse that a company like Atlassian is tempted to accede to them simply to restore normalcy.

    These are the tactics of disruption.

    Kudos to Atlassian for holding up so far - and we should support them the best way we can. Reward their professionalism and integrity with our business. Make sur your client know WHY you are hosting them on Bitbucket and not Github. Talk to your peers about it. Make sure they know that Bitbucket is the place that WON'T kill your code the moment someone gets bent out of shape on twitter.

    Ken

  47. Justen Stepka

    Hi everyone,

    We are aware of the repository in question and have decided to not take it down based on our end user agreement.

    Our end user agreement (https://www.atlassian.com/end-user-agreement) prohibits content that is "obscene, defamatory, libelous, threatening, harassing, pornographic, racially or ethnically offensive, that encourages conduct that would be considered a criminal offense or give rise to any civil liability." The repository content at issue does not fall into one of the prohibited categories.

    While we want to encourage everyone (women and men) to use Bitbucket, we do not want to be arbiters of what is or is not offensive. If we take this content down, what other content will we need to take down because some find it to be offensive?

    To avoid going down this slippery slope and be clear with you our users, we will remove content as required by law, meaning valid:

    • DMCA takedown requests
    • court orders

    Thanks for you concern,

    Justen Stepka -- Bitbucket product manager

  48. eevee

    I note that you're already arbitrating what is or is not offensive, since the agreement you just quoted already prohibits anything "racially or ethnically offensive".

  49. Amber Yust

    "While we want to encourage everyone (women and men) to use Bitbucket, we do not want to be arbiters of what is or is not offensive. If we take this content down, what other content will we need to take down because some find it to be offensive?"

    Nothing. After all, you've already stated that you're not required to take it down for legal reasons, so there'd be nothing forcing you to take down any other content based on taking down this content.

    Basically, you're hiding behind a lack of legal obligation so that you don't have to actually deal with moral questions on your own. You state that you "don't want to be arbiters" but by choosing to provide a publishing platform you are already being arbiters whether you like it or not. Choosing to not take down anything unless forced to by law is simply embracing a morality that says that anything which is not illegal is A-OK.

    If that's the morality you would like to see prevail, so be it... but recognize that such a morality is part of the reason why minority groups are underrepresented in open source communities.

  50. C Light

    As I'm sure you already know eevee, women are neither a race nor an ethnic group.

    Amber, as stated on their twitter feed you shouldn't confuse publication with endorsement.

  51. C Light

    Then please tell all of us what exactly you were referring to when you claimed they're "already arbitrating what is or is not offensive" in regards to their EUA prohibiting "racially or ethnically offensive" in your comment.

    To any person observing this issue it seemed like you were replying to their decision to let the repo stay online (a repo about feminists and women [neither of which is a race nor an ethnic group]). And to me personally it looks like you're trying to defend yourself through willful blindness, omitting context to cover you mistake.

  52. eevee

    The given reason for taking no action was to avoid the slippery slope that comes with deeming what is offensive. This is followed and emphasized by an explicit statement that content will only be taken down for legal reasons. Yet the quoted part of the user agreement clearly indicates a case where they will deem what is offensive. I found the obvious contradiction curious, especially in a comment so concerned with legalities.

    If you're suggesting that Atlassian is willing to arbitrate offensiveness for race but not gender (or gender politics), that's certainly a plausible explanation, but it's clearly not what they said.

  53. Jean Delacruz

    Oh, BitBucket, you've been completely taken for a ride.

    The nice people over at 4chan have been laughing until their sides are in exquisite pain, and rightly so—because not only have you bought their trolling hook, line, and sinker, you've also fallen for their ridiculous claims of Free Speach and valiantly stepped in to defend their hateful garbage as if it was something with any shred of redeeming value.

    Don't take my word for it. Here are a couple of the earlier 4chan threads about C-Plus-Equality:

    http://archive.is/bzGII http://archive.is/ctRVM

    and one of the more recent ones:

    http://rbt.asia/g/thread/S38815727#p38818695

    Heck, just have a look through the rbt archiver and check out the upstanding character of the nice /g/entlemen you're supporting:

    http://rbt.asia/g/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=c-plus-equality

    So! Enjoy your freshly-earned reputation as the laughingstock of the tech industry, folks! BitBucket will long be known as the preferred Git hosting site of 4chan and other equally honorable members of the community, because you, of all companies, apparently could not see a blatant, egregious troll for what it was.

  54. David Celis

    Our end user agreement prohibits content that is "..., libelous, ..." The repository content at issue does not fall into one of the prohibited categories.

    Really? Because I'm just so sure the following people would actually contribute to this repository:

    Yeah, very likely that Valerie Aurora joined Bitbucket two days ago just to contribute solely to this.

    I pointed out these obvious spoofed (read: libelous) commits in an earlier comment and another commenter even went so far as to link to them. Nothing was done. The repository owner claims they are not responsible for vetting the commits they accept, even though they are. Given the fact this has been proven to be a 4chan troll (really Bitbucket? Giving in to 4chan?), of course they're not gonna vet them.

    You guys need a new legal team.

  55. Rebecca Walker

    David Celis Nothing in the TOS of Atlassian prohibits pseudonyms. You saying these accounts, including mine, are libelous, is the same as saying Voltaire is being libelous.

    Using a pseudonym isn't the same as impersonating someone.

    If we, however, were being libelous in any way (which again, we aren't), that does not mean the feministsoftwarefoundation repo should be eliminated - we are only tangentially related to the project as collaborators. The main feministsoftwarefoundation account isn't using any such pseudonym, and all of our commits have to be accepted by said account.

    In the repo - the readme, the example code, the inherpreter, etc - you won't see any sort of endorsement BY any person. There's endorsement OF some feminists (like Arielle Schlesinger, the genius that proposed the feminist logic of (p && ¬p) == 1), but that is in no way libel.

  56. FeministSoftwareFoundation

    I'm sorry, but how can we be harassing or libellous to certain people? Don't you remember that (p && ¬p) == 1? If certain committing users are using the same name as certain people, it doesn't mean that they are spoofing their name — what it means is that they aren't spoofing their name!

    You lot complaining here should learn some feminist logic, because, frankly, the discussion here is pure toxic misogyny. This sort of Patriarchal logical nonsense is what makes it so hard for women to get into STEM and programming fields these days. For once we, actual feminists, try to implement a programming language according to feminist logic, and you lot come in and harpy on about how we are harassing you.

    This is why we need feminism — because of all these "feminists" who have internalised so much misogyny that they will attack actual feminists using Patriarchal, non-feminist logic.

  57. Boreal Explorer

    A rape joke contained in the "C Plus Equality" repository hosted on Atlassian Bitbucket.

    Atlassian Bitbucket's official response to their hosting of "C Plus Equality"

    Since Jesse Yowell [Atlassian] is requesting e-mails to Bitbucket support now be redirected here, I'll go ahead and repost this so that the Atlassian management team doesn't need to go digging for my blog post on the subject in order to learn what common sense ought to tell them.

    Why I’ve added Atlassian to the “no thanks” list containing SendGrid, HackerNews, and reddit.

    I gotta tell ya, I’m still just rolling, uh, “laughing” over here at what Atlassian Bitbucket has chosen to host on their private servers.

    Their latest official tweet regarding the issue is also pictured above.

    Of course, we all know that if this had been about black people’s history of civil rights struggle, or gay/lesbian (remember when that gay dude got nailed to a fence? okay, how about all those women killed by their boyfriends every day?), the “satire” would be removed from Atlassian’s privately hosted space – if nothing else, in protection of their bottom line.

    If you host content in your private square, you endorse it in the eyes of the public.

    Atlassian incorrectly argues that “allowing publication” does not equal “endorsement;” in that case I expect to see them hosting some KKK hilarity and Nazi lulz on their private platform next – but not endorsing it, you see.

    As usual, the reddit-type brigade brings up the “free speech” red herring, conveniently forgetting that, at least in the United States, speech is only protected in the public square. You cannot harass women or wear white pointy hoods at your local (privately owned) shopping mall; you’ll be thrown out. While it’s a separate and important problem that we have so few public squares on the Internet right now, Atlassian Bitbucket is a private square, and they are actively choosing to host the content. Thus, they endorse it de facto.

    For folks who don’t know who or what Atlassian or Bitbucket is, Atlassian is a company which makes a whole lot of software-about-making-software, which I might add is a quite competitive market with many not-Atlassian choices.

    Atlassian may choose to host whatever legal content they wish on their private servers, and techies may choose which software and services they use based on whatever reasons they like; for example, I'll never use SendGrid. I won’t read HackerNews or reddit any longer. For now, Atlassian has joined that sad list.

    Like I have publicly told Atlassian Bitbucket, de facto endorsement of misogyny by hosting it on one’s private infrastructure is a bottom line issue.

  58. Boreal Explorer

    I gotta say, this does sum the whole wider social issue up pretty nicely:

    Justen Stepka of Atlassian Bitbucket declares that the company will not remove "C Plus Equality."

    Justen Stepka, It's unfortunate that you've - for now, until and unless it starts affecting the Atlassian bottom line - chosen to be on the wrong side of both common sense and history. The tech industry needs to have these conversations. Society as a whole is long overdue to have these conversations. Unfortunately, Atlassian has decided to provide - at their expense - service to what amounts to a group of baboons who wish to throw dung at conversation participants, not to mention all women who believe in gender equality.

    Throwing obnoxious jerks out of one's private property - in this case, Bitbucket - is not "suppressing" the jerks' speech, since they are perfectly capable of putting said speech up elsewhere and paying for it themselves. That's what it boils down to. Atlassian has made a choice about what to allow on their private property that makes many others, previously content to hang out here, feel unwelcome.

    For those clicking on my profile: yes, it's brand new, because it corresponds to the identity with which I made the above blog post.

  59. Anonymous

    To be abundantly clear, members of 4chan have already harassed individual women on twitter by providing links to this repository. Your platform is directly facilitating harassment.

    harassment

  60. Anonymous

    Since when providing links to a repository is a harassment? I got many times links to many feminist projects, is that harassment too?

  61. Rebecca Walker

    Boreal Explorer Good thing there are more places on the internet where people who are in favor of censorship can host their code. You'll be very comfortable there.

    Good thing Bitbucket is providing a service for those of us who actually feel freedom of speech is important - specially in times where the last name Snowden means a lot.

    If anything good has come out of this for everybody, is the knowledge of where these two competing git hosting providers, bitbucket and github, stand. I certainly won't ever consider hosting on github given that they can kill any project just because twitter complains about it - in this case it was a programming language that lampoons extremist third wave feminism (and mind you, we ARE programming it, and it IS becoming a reality), but what if in an indefinite future I were to program, say, a cryptography package like truecrypt, or a private, anonymous communication package like tor or freenode, or a de/recoding package like ffmpeg? Cryptography, anonymous communication and decoding can be contentious subjects due to their use, so it's a good thing to know that github can crave under pressure and kill contentious projects, whereas bitbucket will most likely stand on the side of those who actually use their services instead of the twitter hordes, and won't censor them.

    So as you, who are in favor of censorship, leave bitbucket, I'm now using it exclusively. So do most if not all of the other feministsoftwarefoundation programmers. And that's not all - many projects that were hosted in github are now moving to bitbucket for this very reason. Many of my friends, including anonymous programmers who have done stuff as meager as basic greasemonkey userscripts (that still get hundreds of thousands installs every month) to renown ones who are working on projects like the ones I listed in the previous paragraph are moving here.

    So while I definitely do not represent bitbucket, let me tell you: you won't be missed.

  62. eevee

    I interpret GitHub's actions as taking down a project for being mean-spirited and in bad faith, not for ruffling a threshold number of feathers. I wouldn't look very fondly upon a repository that existed just to make a macro language mocking "dudebros", either.

    BitBucket's own user agreement lists a number of cases in which they will censor repositories, and no one has objected to the existence of that list, so spinning this as censorship vs not is hilariously dishonest. You only disagree on where to draw the line, because GitHub drew it on the wrong side of you.

  63. Anonymous

    I see many people saying that they will "never use bitbucket again", the funny thing about all that people is that they didn't use bitbucket anyway...

    For everyone who asks to remove this repository I can say this: the only real reason for bitbucket to stop hosting this is the commits by fake persons. If you think there is another reason please prove your claims, I keep seeing that this project promotes "rape", "misoginy", "deaths", "earthquakes" but nobody proved his/her/its claims

    Boreal Explorer

    ``okay, how about all those women killed by their boyfriends every day?''

    I can't see what this had to do with the topic. Someone could say "how about all those men killed by their girlfriends every day". Both are equal offtopic

    ``If you host content in your private square, you endorse it in the eyes of the public.''

    Let's say there are two political parties and each one of the has a site. If one hosting company hosts one of them means that it endorse the political partiy? no. That would be true only if the same company didn't agree with hosting the other party's site.

    ``You cannot harass women''

    You can not harass anyone in public nor localy

    ``Like I have publicly told Atlassian Bitbucket, de facto endorsement of misogyny by hosting it on one’s private infrastructure is a bottom line issue''

    I can't see any kind of misogyny in that project, please prove your claims. The only thing I can see is a vaild satire about modern ``feminism''

    But the only thing I can see right now is misandry by ``feminists'' and censorship by fascists

    ``not to mention all women who believe in gender equality''

    I'm a women who believes in gender equality and I can say that the so called ``feminists'' promotes thre real sexism. Seeing that github censored this project shows to me that github doesn't care about freedom and gender equality

  64. Anonymous

    My evidence that you are all the same person is because my previous comment, which was (accidentally) in support of your view, did not originate from you, and therefore you immediately attacked it without thinking.

    But all of this is really secondary to the fact that you're using the repository to harass people.

  65. Anonymous

    I don't belong to a team, I don't care if someone supports or not my view, what I care is that people keep posting random and unproved BS. This is my only enemy the people who post unproven things as fact, not the persons who have vaild criticism of the repository (see fake commits).

    ``My evidence that you are all the same person is because my previous comment, which was (accidentally) in support of your view, did not originate from you''

    How is that an evidence?

    ``and therefore you immediately attacked it without thinking''

    I never attack something without thinking

    ``But all of this is really secondary to the fact that you're using the repository to harass people.''

    please prove your claims

  66. John Doe

    Good to see bitbucket defending freedom of speech (of course bitbucket could take the repo down, as its well within their rights as owners of the site, but nice to see them not cave to stupid requests), meanwhile github will take down a repo once they see a tweet from some social justice warrior complaining. Its a damn parody, no need to get your panties in a knot. Would you cry and complain if somebody started a software project mocking/satirizing republicans, democrats, christians, jews, muslims or some other group? Don't like it, don't pay attention to it. Its not like it hurts you.

  67. eevee

    I would object to a similar project mocking a group I disagreed with, yes.

    If you don't like the complaints, don't pay attention to them. It's not like they hurt you.

  68. Erick Romero

    I just want to thank the fellows here in Bitbucket for supporting Internet Freedom of Speech.

    I have started migrating here, and I'll migrate my projects from github once I finish convincing a couple of my collaborators to move here as well.

    I am also campaign leader for the Python projects in my company and I've managed to convince them to move all of our projects once our lease/paid-time with github is over.

    Again Bitbucket, thank you for not caving into the internet shitstorm brewing around this project. I value a company that respects both their paying and non-paying customers, and you will certainly have my business from this moment forward.

  69. Cao Cao

    eevee "I wouldn't look very fondly upon a repository that existed just to make a macro language mocking "dudebros", either."

    I don't believe you one iota, but that aside. What you describe is different. Dudebro is a far-left meme that means white males who haven't accepted the "light" of their extremist and racist ideology.

    You can't compare criticism of ideology and racist hate speech.

  70. eevee

    Yes, I can imagine you'd be pretty upset if someone made fun of beliefs you held that were closely tied to your demographics and/or identity.

    Good thing BitBucket doesn't tolerate that kind of nonsense. Sometimes.

  71. Cao Cao

    eevee What belief and which demographic would that be?

    I find it racist, offensive and triggering that you feel that this is a safe space for your ugly, ignorant prejudices and hate speech. I am feeling unsafe right now.

  72. eevee

    The belief that feminism is wrong on a wide array of individual points, as held by the white males you refer to, who have a vested interest in promoting said belief. Is that not an ideology? Or does it need a name to qualify as one?

    While I do sincerely apologize for offending you, it would be helpful to know exactly what I've said that is so problematic. I merely observed that BitBucket doesn't tolerate racism, a word you used first, according to the user agreement quoted above.

  73. Cao Cao

    And we've gone full circle. Like I said, ideology is not protected. Race is. Your veiled threat (impotent one, as I won't care to seek it out to offend myself on somebody's behalf) of creating a parody featuring your prejudices about a race/sex group is complete lunacy in the context of the C+= project and it remaining on bitbucket. Please commit yourself and or at least stop intimidating women online. I am feeling so unsafe I am shaking with fear right now.

  74. Cao Cao

    Bitbucket is being invaded by racist trolls working in unison to harass and cyberbully the beautiful and smart women of C+=. I know of at least two women who left the project in complete horror because of them. It's a deep, damn, disgusting shame that there are humans out there who will stoop to such depravity and hate.

  75. bell hooks

    The C+= project is an amazing and inspiring example of womyn of color and white womyn coming together to fight against the White Supremacist Patriarchal Rape Culture that pervades our computing spaces.

    The White Supremacist Patriarchal Rape Culture of computing cannot fathom the power and focus of hundreds of feminist Womyn working to produce a truly non-hierarchical, non-patriarchal programming language.

    It is clear that those anti-feminist forces, finding themselves on the wrong side of history and the wrong side of truth and social justice (amongst whom I include the patriarchal pro-rape racists at GitHub), have chosen to focus their energies to oppose our feminist project here.

    To them, I say, you may attempt to rape my sisters, you may try to brutalize our bodies, but you will never violate our free minds ... minds that we are using to create a new language which will defeat White Supremacist Patriarchal Rape Culture once and for all.

    WE ARE UNITED WOMYN - WE ARE INTERSECTIONAL FEMINISTS - WE ARE FIGHTING BACK

  76. Cao Cao

    bell hooks Beautiful, inspiring! You are brave for standing up despite the repugnant rape culture leaking in here from fake feminists who, let's face it, are probably paid off agents of the patriarchy. Let's stand united to make this a safe space in which we can truly blossom our strong female minds and grow C+= into a revolutionary new paradigm! To intersectionality and beyond!

  77. Michael Giambalvo

    It's pretty impressive the amount of effort people will put into being unfunny and lame on the internet. Congrats, idiots, on finding a place to host your stupid circlejerk project for free.

    GitHub is clearly on the right side of this. Frankly, I expected a little bit more from Atlassian. Congrats, Bitbucket, on becoming the preferred free hosting solution internet trolls.

  78. Anonymous

    Michael Giambalvo I find this project very funny and inderesting

    Github showed for one more time how fascist, sexist and enemy of our freedom is, me, my friends and many other people will start supporting Bitbucket for now on.

    Also I have to say that github is full of stupid circlejerk project [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [7] [8].

    Finaly your argument supporting censorship is that you believe that this project is a troll, for me Ruby is a troll language but it still hosted on github[6], also https://github.com/mojombo/god offends me and all the members of my religion, even worse, it's blasphemous! Where is the world going if anyone can call anything the name of our Creator? That project is a harassment to every christian, muslim and jew in the world, makes it harder for religious people to get into coding and encourages raping of religious children. But looks like github selected to be the preferred free hosting solution internet trolls.

    [1] https://github.com/thiderman/doge

    [2] https://github.com/torvalds/linux

    [3] https://github.com/eevee

    [4] https://github.com/mozilla/rust

    [5] https://github.com/lesbians

    [6] https://github.com/ruby/ruby

    [7] https://github.com/penisswisscheese/penis

    [8] https://github.com/mizmiz666/penis

  79. Scott Farquhar

    After further consideration, we have decided to remove this repository. While our End User Agreement explicitly prohibits the posting of content that is "racially or ethnically offensive," we believe it is consistent with the spirit of our agreement to also prohibit content that is offensive toward a specific gender. We will update our End User Agreement to make this prohibition more explicit.

  80. C Light

    I'm immensely disappointed that someone up the Atlassian line has decided to alter their EUA in an attempt to save face at the behest of a small group of feminism extremists and their social media accounts.

    Although I agree this decision was the right one from a business perspective, it certainly wasn't correct from one of integrity.

  81. Marti Raudsepp

    Seriously?

    I may agree that these people deserve to be shut down for their inability to hold a respectful discussion outside of their own repositories (such as on this issue) and for the impersonation of other people.

    But have you actually read what's in the repository? There is nothing there that's directed at women. It's a spoof of radical feminism, an ideology, not a gender. The word "feminism" is unfortunate because it suggests they are representing females, but most women are not actually feminists.

    The new piece of EUA you quoted was "prohibit content that is offensive toward a specific gender", but in this instance you are enforcing that as "content that offends some members of a specific gender". The satire was not directed at a gender. But no matter the subject, there will always be someone who is offended by it. It doesn't make sense to block everything that someone might find offensive.

  82. Rebecca Walker

    A real shame.

    If Atlassian took the time to read and analyze the source code of our project, they'd see how we were never being "offensive toward a specific gender". We were lampooning an extremist ideology, one shared by many men as made obvious by the twitter shitstorm. We weren't even attacking any kind of people, even the third wave feminist. We were just mocking their doublespeek - one that isn't shared by every women. Hell, one that isn't shared by every feminist (see Camille Paglia). We even have the support of particular women: http://youtu.be/YP9kLSEfHTM

    So deciding to close this down because it's "offensive towards a gender" is the real act of discrimination against women. To believe all women believe in third wave feminist drivel is what's insulting. It's the same as believing all women cook, or all women should get married: a belief that should have died centuries ago.

    And the most amazing part of all of this is how the "brobucket" twitter account is still active. How bitbucket hasn't requested their libel to be taken down, but have decided to take this absolutely campy project out of their servers instead.

    A real shame.

  83. Erika Nillenbeisser

    Specific gender? Really? That's pretty ironic since the philosophy of C+= was to do away with things like that. Could you explain how, in a set where every item is equal, something can be specific? How something can be singled out as something unique among the set?

    What a step back in progress. It seems that the concept of C+= is too different for people to process, which, again, is ironic, considering its aim to make things equal for everything and everyone.

    Disgusting.

  84. Cao Cao

    I want to put it on record for any perusing journalists that bitbucket did this after the harassing trolls created the brobucket twitter account where they impersonated bitbucket and its staff to harm its reputation. The account is owned by the twitter handle computionist, who is also active in racial abuse and black list-keeping of anyone defending the project.

    Bitbucket would rather cave in to terrorists than allow the expression of what The Register calls a Monthy Python-esque lampooning of extreme feminists. Truly sad.

  85. Jean Delacruz

    Scott Farquhar thanks for this. A lot of people in the tech community, of all genders, welcome this move.

    Freedom of speech doesn't include the "freedom" to spraypaint your poetry on the side of somebody else's house. The contributors to this repository are at liberty to continue exercising their freedom of speech on their own servers. In fact, given their demonstrated technical acumen, I'm sure they'll soon come up with an innovative self-hosted Feminist Software Foundation source code control solution, so that they can be free from the tyrannical regime of sites that refuse to host their trolling, and so that they can continue posting "code" which trivializes rape, paints all women (not just feminists) as irrational, and insults all of us who just want to see people in tech treated equitably.

  86. Jean Delacruz

    Cao Cao oh my! it is truly rich that the nice /g/entlemen of 4chan, the internet's most notorious repository of "harassing trolls", would accuse a genuinely satirical account of being harassment. I don't think anybody with two brain cells to rub together would confuse the @Brobucket account with the official Bitbucket one. It looks to me like Brobucket is trying to lampoon Bitbucket's decision to host 4chan's trolling here.

  87. Samurai Ken

    Scott Farquhar It is very disappointing to see this. So apparently all anyone needs to do to get code deleted from bitbucket is to be offended enough? How can anyone trust their code to your service when folks will find a way to get offended about almost anything?

    Obviously it's your service, and you have the right to give into any pressure you feel is hurting your bottom line - but I think you will find the trust you have thrown away with this action will in the end hurt your company.

  88. Boreal Explorer

    Scott Farquhar, thanks.

    This is a really good illustration of (a facet of) the problem for which Atlassian has decided not to provide free private support - "Disturbing Google searches for Feminism" http://taiganaut.tumblr.com/post/68291681436/leanin-disturbing-google-searches-for-feminism

    Now the /b/tards can pay for their own speech - may I recommend https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/ ? They're a good host and good with scumbag clients - Nazis and racists and the like - as well as ones worthy of breathing my air.

    Once on NFSN or a similar host, the ACLU, and myself as an ACLU member would fight tooth and nail for scumbags' right to self-sponsored speech if it is the government involved in suppressing said speech.

    Otherwise, as demonstrated above, the "free speech" and "censorship!!!`1~1" screeching is a giant non-sequitur, inevitably raised by 4ailchanners when thrown out on their asses for acting like, well, 4ailchanners.

  89. bell hooks

    Now the /b/tards

    Tards? Check your ableist privilege.

    Feminist free speech will break through. If not here, then somewhere. The White Supremacist Patriarchy may throw obstacles in our path, but our cause is just and we will keep our eyes on the prize.

  90. curiousinternals

    Scott Farquhar

    we believe it is consistent with the spirit of our agreement to also prohibit content that is offensive toward a specific gender

    I had a long read through the cached copy of the repo's overview and I'm struggling to find which part could be considered offensive to a specific gender.

    As far as I can see, the topic of the repo was a particular brand of extreme feminism. Are you suggesting that anything critical of this particular brand of feminism is offensive towards a specific gender, or am I missing some key sentence? Do you have an example of where the repository was offensive to a specific gender?

    Also, how will Atlassian determine what is considered offensive to a specific gender? I have shown the repo to many people and all of them found it to be comedic in nature and taken no offence. If it is not clear by whose standards a repo will be judged, then such a rule would be, at worst, based on how whoever is implementing it at the time feels. I simply cannot agree to terms that are ambiguous.

    I am very disappointed in the decision and the reasoning behind it. I don't really have the words to describe exactly how disappointed I am.

    I was more impressed earlier when the issues was marked as wontfix by Justen Stepka with the reason:

    we do not want to be arbiters of what is or is not offensive. If we take this content down, what other content will we need to take down because some find it to be offensive?

    Those were my exact concerns. Will Atlassian buckle under external pressure and close any controversial project I wish to start?

    I am unwilling to invest in an unreliable platform. If I cannot trust you to protect your users from vocal minorities taking offence, then I cannot use this service. It's a terrible shame because I was fully intending to apply to Atlassian because of how impressed I was by the company. I am deeply saddened by this turn of events, and the fact that what is my favourite company is so easily swayed by an angry mob who feel they have the right to never be offended.

    If you stifle free speech to please the minority, you will only ever please that minority, and you will be stuck with them as your user base.

  91. curiousinternals

    Many thanks to FeministSoftwareFoundation and co for giving me something to laugh about for a change.

    No thanks to the rest of you. I hope you all feel proud of your valuable investment in time. I wonder how many generations will thank you for hiding some satirical text from a couple of websites rather than spending that same time making something that actually helps people.

    BTW, I'm sharing the cached copy and the new repo with people. You've just improved the rate of its spread. Nice going. Thanks for drawing my attention to its existence.

  92. guillimet

    It's interesting, because regardless of who's right and who's wrong, I would think the folks at Bitbucket fighting to get the repo shut down would be savvy enough to have heard of the Streisand Effect. After Github kicked the FSF off, C+= got it's first media mentions. Now that Bitbucket and Google Code have kicked it, the project has just gotten more and more coverage.

  93. curiousinternals

    Annabel Llamas

    I suspect that is because there are no answers that would not make them look bad at this point.

    It would be nice if people actually justified their opinions before trying to impose them on others. Heck, it would be nice to be able to work without having to deal with entitled Scrooges trying to tell everyone what they should be allowed to see.

    The only people that repo would drive out of STEM, as the OP suggests, are humourless thought Nazis. I'd rather work with people like you.

    I am similarly frustrated that no proper explanation for how this is harassing women has been given. I fully expect no one to answer though, since these people seem to think they are the centre of the world and should be free of seeing things they don't personally like.

  94. amandaBird

    What's funny is that this software was a satire of extreme feminism, which (from what I gather) is anti-men and tends to attach the word rape to every facet of masculine behavior. So, in essence, it is fine to hate men, but unacceptable to poke fun at extremist womyn. What a sad decision this has turned out to be. There's always other options out there though.

  95. penisswisscheese

    As the creator of one of the repos mentioned in here (https://github.com/penisswisscheese/penis) I'd like to give my opinion to anyone who cares. Skip this paragraph if you just want my opinion on c-plus-equality. My repo was not trying to make any sort of statement, it was just an experiment with generating a cluttered body of text with lots of different types of variation in javascript. Late one night, I ended up turning into an admittedly sophomoric joke, but I'm leaving it up in the hopes that SOMEBODY finds it funny or the code useful. Although I can't say I'm proud of it.

    As for the c-plus-equality repo, I might be unpopular with both sides for saying this, but here goes, don't hurt me please: I actually agree with feminism in general and I think we need more women in the tech industry (I'm a man), but I wouldn't have taken the repo down if it was my decision. First of all, whether or not something is offensive is subjective. What's to stop other repos from being deemed offensive and being removed? It's dangerous for sites like bitbucket and github to remove any code that is expected to remain permanent. (Although, I will concede that these sites mention in their terms and agreements that they can take stuff down for any reason, but they still shouldn't) Second, I think all writing whether in code or human readable should be saved if only to be used as an example of how not to code/say something or for collecting statistical data.

    A possible solution: Instead of removing repos, hosting sites could add some sort of clearly visible banner or tag saying something like "contains politically charged or potentially offensive content"

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