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FAPI WG Meeting Notes (2017-03-01)

Date & Time: 2017-03-01 15:00 UTC
(15:00 PDT, 23:00 UK, 00:00 Denmark, 08:00+1 JST)

Location: GoToMeeting

The meeting was called to order at 15:10 UTC.

1.   Roll Call

  • Present: Nat, Tom, Dave, Brian, John, Henrik, Bjorn
  • Regrets:
  • Guest:

3.   External Orgs

3.1.   UK OBS (Dave)

3.1.1.   Status Report

  • Technical WS two full days every week.
  • OAuth 2.0 and FAPI draft in wide circulation.
  • Got connect with Pam Dingle, who is also involved.
  • Dignified, restrained, absolute Panic.
  • Everything has to be agreed by April.
  • They are less interested in something that is not in product within 6 months.
  • If FAPI accommodates some of the short term goals, it would be better.
  • Read-Write between institutions are priority. Users accessing with mobile phones not a priority.
  • Banks are comfortable with mutual client auth. More naive PoP as well.
  • Dave being involved in legal tech side under the CMA order, he can probably pull together the single payment initiation use cases so that FAPI can attest and vendors can implement.

3.1.2.   Liaison status

  • Formal liaison status progress needs to be checked so that we can share the materials under NDA just like we do with ISO and ITU-T.
  • John suggested to focus on the request to get their requirements so that we can make sure that FAPI meets their requirements.
  • Under PSD2, they have obligation to adopt international standards so FAPI would have good standing there.

3.1.3.   Highest Priority

  • John pointed out that we do not have mutual TLS bound access tokens and there is nothing written down. It needs to be there.
  • Nat pointed out such a draft needs to be blessed in some fashion for them to embrace, e.g., being working group draft in IETF OAuth WG or somewhere else. Although it is more desirable to do it in IETF, in the initial phase, we might have to do it within FAPI.
  • Dave pointed out that what OBS is looking at TLS mutual auth is to establish the not-fully-open api channel and does not have to be tied back to the application layer.
  • Brian informed the group that he just received the declassified requirement document from OBS. It will be circulated later.

3.1.4.   Needs for marketing

  • There seems to be a misconception that FAPI is built on top of OpenID Connect or FAPI is about federated authentication.
  • OpenID just is a name of a standardization organization, just like "ISO" and nothing more. It does not mean that specs OpenID Foundation creates are based on OpenID Connect etc. OpenID Connect is a spec called "Connect" which is developed under "OpenID", just like "ISO 20022" is a spec called "20022" which is developed under "ISO".

3.2.   DK Banking Association(s) (Henrik)

  • Denmark Banks are worried on the conflict between Danish privacy law and PSD2 that would potentially not allow the use of payment data for other purposes.
  • Dansk Bank wants to copy and use the UK standards.
  • Henrik will meet with him later today and share FAPI info. He will update the group subsequently.

3.2.1.   RTS

  • RTS should also be sent to FAPI.
  • Dave volunteered to send the summary of RTS changes to the list.

3.3.   Others

  • FS-ISAC DDA (Anoop)
  • OFX (Anoop)
  • ISO/TC68
  • Figo
  • JP Banking Association (Nat)

4.   iGov Presentation (John)

  • Discussing VoT and asked Justin to produce a draft but it is still very early.

5.   Modrna Presentation (John)

  • Modrna is looking at various ways to establish communication and obtaining consents of users out of band.
  • Banks in some jurisdictions are quite keen on it while it is not in the UK.
  • Use cases
    • User calling into a call center and customer identity is verified through push notification to phones.
    • Credit card transaction at shop. Getting notification on the phone to confirm the transaction.
    • As a second channel to mitigate the man-in-the-browser.
  • Modrna is defining claims to go into request object for these purposes.


6.   Implementer's draft (Nat)

6.1.   Part 1: Read Only API Security Profile (Nat)

7.   Working Drafts

7.1.   Part 2: Read & Write API Security Profile (Nat & Edmund)

7.1.1.   What shall we token bind?

The WG group discussed what needs to be token bound. If the server and the client supports token binding, then it should token bind refresh token and access token.

Question: Shall we token bind code as well?

Nat asked John to provide an example of token binding messages, which are not in the token binding specs. John agreed.

7.1.2.   Would there be other options?

Yes. We will still have mutual TLS auth available. Token Binding may take longer time to get implemented. Sascha expressed that something that can be completely application layer is easier to implement. Nat expressed that he needs something that API GW vendors can support. Sascha agreed to look into the matter and report back on the token binding support and alternatives.

7.1.3.   Authentication Requirement

WG discussed what format shall be used to express the authentication requirement. John pointed out that iGov is coming up with vectors of trust expression. Nat pointed out that it would be best to align and asked John to make a presentation on iGov decision next week. John agreed.

7.1.4.   Always Request Object?

There can be two types of interactions with the user.

  • type 1: The client makes the "write" request (e.g., initiate payment) in the authorization request to get user authorization. This is a typical case in many of the payment schemes.
  • type 2: The client makes the "write" request to a specialized API so that the API can send the user notification and get authorization. This is something Modrna is working on.

In type 1 case, authorization request should be signature protected: i.e, has to be a request object, otherwise it may be tampered in browser.

In type 2 case, there is no authorization request involved but some other API calls (Editors note: which again may be needed to be signature protected for the recording purposes etc.)

Nat asked John to make the presentation on Modrna user questioning API next week. John agreed.

8.   AOB

8.1.   Next Call (Pacific)

  • Next call is Pacific shift and is in next week. Please consult the WG calendar for the date and time.

The meeting adjourned at 00:02 UTC.