Translations: Documentation, audit, and upgrade translation management proposal.

Issue #203 new
Lukas ThyWalls created an issue

In the last weeks i began to play DK with the 1.3 patch and the spanish translation pack, and soon i realise there are some problems with them. I created some bugs here in that time but at the same time i use that to do some research about how the translations works, the content of all the transations packs and, in my case, the original content of the game in spanish.

First of all, i realised the Spanish translation originally is a little mess for some reason. But i see too the other ones has problems too, and all of them has a heavy problem with the content of the game in every translation. Let me explain:

I see that first with #196, when in e1m3a, playing the game in Spanish, one of the prisoner say a line in other languages (German (Voice) and English (Text)) instead in Spanish. I realised first, the german voice is for some original problem with the original 1.2 spanish patch (i will talk about this later) but the text is because that line doesn't exist in the Spanish version of the game. I tried the original 1.2 spanish Daikatana, and that dialog of the prisoner doesn't happens at all, maybe, because the spanish publisher deleted some dialogs of the game for budget purposes. That brought me to see the content of all the translations packs, and comparing it with the original files. Talking only with amount of files in the subtitles folder packed in pak1.pak and in the translations packs, we have:

  • Pak1.pak English 1.2: 1380 files.
  • Pak1.pak Spanish 1.2: 738 files.
  • Spanish Pack Translation: 737 files.
  • Italian Pack Translation: 723 files.
  • German Pack Translation: 742 files.
  • French Pack Translation: 267 files (!).

With the actual packs, we have a game what is trying to access (a lot of) files there aren't there, and never weren't, but can be created and restored as a fan upgraded translation. And can be upgraded the english text too, related to the voices.

The thing is, through here, if we can do a work to audit the files, have all information of what is missing in every translation (including something about the original translation), and maybe post all the information in the Daikatana 1.3 Wiki somehow, and if some people want to do the work, post the upgrade translation alongside the official one, for not mixing the original work with the fan work, although they could be delivered in the same zip file.

Details

UI Texts

Although images needs to be packed with the translations, seeing how works when you do some UI text changes, seems the UI texts should be stored with the Patch and not in the translation packs, if i'm not mistaken. So, the UI text should be fixed one by one via bugtracker (like #197)

Subtitles

I extracted all Subtitles folder of all translations packs, the original subtitles folder from pak1.pak (1.2 GOG version) and the pak1.pak subtitles folder from the original spanish 1.2 version (the spanish translation pack is a diff of this version).

  • I did a little script to compare what files are missing in two directory trees to have a list (for the Wiki) and, with little changes in that script, i can have a folder with only the no coincident files copied, to have the files what need to be translated in every translation pack and are actually missing compared with the english version, to make it easy to translators.

  • This can be useful to the english version too, because there are voice files without subtitles (#19) and with the same script can be listed. If you do that, the translations have to be updated with the translated versions of these files too.

  • It could be useful to know what every kind of subtitles is for what, for priorities reasons. I said that because all subtitles (and voice files too) have a filename with some kind of "codes" of what content have (Examples: e1m1_ebi_01.mp3.txt is the 1º line of Ebihara in the intro (e1m1), but there are others like noname_hiro_01.mp3.txt, sid_m_XX.mp3.txt, sid_s_XX.mp3.txt, sid_s_push_getoffme.mp3.txt in the Spanish version, and other there are only in the English version like cmd_mi_pu_XX.mp3.txt, e1_armedguard_XX.mp3.txt, e1_ct_XX.mp3.txt, m_cmd_attack_XX.mp3.txt and a lot of others what i can have a clue about what they are but i'm not sure, and should be useful to know).

  • Related with the two last ones, something i realized with the script: there are some subtitles files in the 1.2 spanish version where there aren't in the 1.2 english version (!). I realized too there is one missing subtitles file in the spanish translation pack comparing it with the 1.2 spanish version (see #204). That's why should be good to have a list of the problematic files for seeing what they are, and seeing why they are missing in between two languages.

  • About the "packaging" of the translations, i think the original translation and a fan translation shouldn't be mixed. Maybe can be shared in the same zip file, but in two paks (like a pak44.pak for the original translation, and a pak45.pak or something like that for the expanded/upgraded files) to have the ability to work above the original translation, and not change it directly, without mixing.

Voices

  • With the voices, we can't do anything to restore the missing voices for obvious reasons, but we can have a list of missing audios, and to fix a lot of S_StartMP3() Warnings with the missing files (at least in spanish, i have a lot of them since i was with SuperFly), we can create a bunch of silent mp3s or a fix like that to avoid that problem. There are some bug related to missing audio files (like #35) but i don't know if it's related with this.

  • It's should be important too to audit the audio files, because, for example, in Spanish there are a lot of mp3 in German (because the spanish 1.2 patch is a mess, talked in #196) not needed and making the pack bigger. I want to do this when i have some time. I don't know if other translations packs have similar problems, but with that, should be good to make a categorization like the subtitles files, because they used the same filenames, to know what is missing (and what, where and who says the text in that missing audio file).

  • The packaging could be the same as now, but if the original voice files of the official translations are audited and cleaned, if there isn't any other problem could be stored in other "pak" for making it easier to put in the game. The only problem is the files "not in pak" have preference to the game engine to the paks stored ones, so the original english voices have to be deleted or moved. That make the problem if there is a missing sound, you will have S_StartMP3() Warnings. Maybe can be a intermediate solution or using "silent" mp3s in the translation pack.

Misc

  • If you decided a determinate solution, a discrete number of pak files to work, it can be possible in the future to add to the Windows Auto-Updater the official translations and upgrade translations if you want.

I will upload some of these comparison lists, but i can do more when it's needed. I will open an issue about the missing spanish subtitle file too (#204).

Thanks in advance.

Comments (27)

  1. Frank Sapone

    There is ways to fix this, but honestly I don't have the time right now to fix the 8.3 names and everything else. In a month or two I should have some time to resolve this better for you. The best I can do right now is fix the hardcoded translations in the language_spanish.dll

  2. Lukas ThyWalls reporter

    The 8.3 names? Are you talking about the whatev~1.mp3 problem i talked to you some weeks ago? I fixed that some days ago.

    I'm not talking about fix anything here, i'm talking to have a way to work with the translations with more detail in the future. I was seeking for described some problems there are with the translations (at least with the spanish one) and makes ways to fix them in the future and be compatible with you work.

  3. Frank Sapone

    Well, you can make a new pak file with the fixed spanish stuff and upload it to me somewhere. You can use daipak.exe to modify the pak files.

  4. Frank Sapone

    Also, regarding the fact that some text is too big in the UI menus this may never be fully fixed, it's pretty invasive to redo all of the menus. But, you never know. A better thing to do would be come up with shortened/abbreviated words if possible.

  5. Lukas ThyWalls reporter

    About the UI texts in Spanish, i will working on that when i can in some weeks.

    With the voices in Spanish, i will try to do during the next weeks the cleaning of german voices. I don't know if i will be able but if not i will do when i can.

    For now, for information, I will upload all text list of the differences between subtitles languages. It's interesting too because there are differences in both ways, there are some subtitles in non-english languages what there aren't in english version. I will see that when i can.

    With original (GOG) DK 1.2 English version subtitles folder has a difference of... :

    • ... 1118 subtitles with French language pack.
    • ... 658 subtitles with German language pack.
    • ... 673 subtitles with Italian language pack.
    • ... 660 subtitles with Spanish language pack.

    Also, in reverse, the DK 1.2 English version subtitles folder has missing...:

    • ... 5 subtitles from French language pack.
    • ... 20 subtitles from German language pack.
    • ... 16 subtitles from Italian language pack.
    • ... 17 subtitles from Spanish language pack.

    And the Spanish language pack has one subtitle missing with the original DK 1.2 Spanish release (Issue #204).

    That's for me... for now.

  6. Frank Sapone

    Hi Lukas, I have been very busy the past few months that I have had little time to look it over. I will look into this in a few days. Sorry that it has taken so long.

  7. Lukas ThyWalls reporter

    Don't worry Frank, i'm too busy too and i couldn't do anything more, but i'm still have a folder in my desktop with the "Daikatana" name.

    It should be cool al least to find why can be so different all the original translations (Cuts, of course, but i don't know how that affect to the game in terms of understanding the game in all the languages, and maybe the game itself has some differences between original languages version above the translation themselves or, most probably, those translations releases were rushed and those versions are incomplete) and maybe create some kind of documentation to help make a complete translation in those language in the future.

    Something i didn't test is the differences between translation packs to see if some are more complete than others, but with the comparison with DK12en, for sure the French version are the most incomplete.

  8. Frank Sapone

    I always figured the Spanish one was the most broken because even the v1.2 patch botches the upgrade. But, to make a new translation in a different language is pretty simple. There is a header file (which I believe I have shown you before) and you translate that as needed. Same with subtitle files and the voice acting. I doubt anyone will ever translate the voice acting in a new language, but having the subtitles and the language DLL in their native language would be of great help to those users.

  9. Hightower

    @Lukas ThyWalls, what does mean "files in DK 1.2 English subtitles folder version missing in the languages packs."? Has the original version more than 650 voices and subtitles in comparsion to the other versions? There would be a lot of work to translate all these subtiles files in the different languages.

  10. Lukas ThyWalls reporter

    @Hightower Short response: Yes. The numbers in https://bitbucket.org/daikatana13/daikatana/issues/203/translations-documentation-audit-and#comment-36935285 are only from text files, the audio files aren't measured yet because they have others problems and almost can't do anything with them.

    With the text files, every one has only one dialog (one or two lines) from the game. There are a lot, but there are categories (they can be spotted by the filename): some are from the singleplayer campaign, others from the multiplayer, others i don't know and there are some shared ones between single-multi i guess.

    I talk about do some kind of documentation, because if there are some people who knows what kind of text file/subtitle/dialog is every type, we can do a splitting in the job, and with the list of missing files make a priority and making it in parts. And the audio files share the same filename of the text file (dialog) related (In fact is the opposite, a dialog uses the same filename with the .mp3.txt extension of an audio file with the same filename with the .mp3 extension), so with this at least we can know what audio files are missing too and create silent mp3s to avoid a lot of warnings of missing audio files during gameplay.

    I tried to spotted what kind of "text" are every file, some are easy, for example "eXmY_Name_Number[Letter].mp3.txt" are from episode X map Y, but there are a lot of Names, as Ebi, super, hiro, mik... some obvious what they are, others not, and there are others files like "cmd_mi_pu_??.mp3.txt", "e1_ct_??.mp3.txt", "m_centurionsight?.mp3.txt", among others, i don't know what they are, maybe because i didn't do a full playthrough yet seeing what a mess is the spanish translation at this state.

  11. Hightower

    E.g. follow sound files are the comands from the sidekick superfly:

    cmd_su_at_01.mp3 //attack
    cmd_su_at_02.mp3 //attack
    cmd_su_at_03.mp3 //attack
    cmd_su_ba_01.mp3 //back off
    cmd_su_ba_02.mp3 //back off
    cmd_su_ba_03.mp3 //back off
    cmd_su_co_01.mp3 //come
    cmd_su_co_02.mp3 //come
    cmd_su_co_02.mp3 //come
    cmd_su_st_01.mp3 //stay
    cmd_su_st_02.mp3 //stay
    cmd_su_st_02.mp3 //stay
    cmd_su_pu_01.mp3 //peruse
    cmd_su_pu_02.mp3 //peruse
    cmd_su_pu_03.mp3 //peruse
    cmd_su_pu_04.mp3 //peruse
    cmd_su_pu_05.mp3 //peruse
    cmd_su_pu_06.mp3 //peruse
    

    I was looking for a possibility to log these warnings. If you play the game you can log the console entries by using the comand +set logfile 2.

    By useing a better editor you can copy all lines with the warning message and delete double entries.

    Map: e1m3b
    
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/super_01.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/super_27.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/super_28.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/cmd_su_at_03.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/sid_s_push_asktomove1.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/cmd_su_ba_02.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/cmd_su_ba_01.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/sid_s_amb_whassup1.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/cmd_su_ba_03.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/cmd_su_at_02.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/sid_s_amb_hello1.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/cmd_su_co_01.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/cmd_su_co_02.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/sid_s_push_heyman1.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/cmd_su_at_01.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/e1m3_sf_01b.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/e1m3_sf_02c.mp3
    
    
    Map: e1m4a
    
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/Super_56.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/Super_50.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/Super_54.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/sid_s_push_getoffme1.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/Super_34.mp3
    S_StartMP3() Warning: Can't find file sounds/voices/superfly/e1m4_sf_04a.mp3
    
  12. Lukas ThyWalls reporter

    Yesterday i was thinking about it should be better to track the sounds warning directly from the game, than auditing what is missing in the sounds folder between translations.

    The only "but" for the log file is dk_console.log is overwrited in every game session and not appended, so you need to keep track of the file to not missing any valuable information, that should be better, but i don't thing is something important...

  13. Frank Sapone

    Logfile can be appended with "logfile 3". You can even name the logfile with "logfile_name <name>"

    You can also filter developer only messages for sound with "developer 4".

    See the readme.pdf for further details about these features.

  14. Lukas ThyWalls reporter

    Thank you @maraakate. I will try with your tips and i will see the readme to look other options what should be useful too.

  15. Frank Sapone

    If it helps, maybe I could code something that will also notify that a translation file is missing and you can enable a CVAR to log this output?

  16. Frank Sapone

    Added, to use set "s_subtitle_warnings" CVAR. This will warn when a subtitle file cannot be found. In 08/27/17 update for Win32.

  17. Lukas ThyWalls reporter

    I was trying to revamp this to create a spanish extension pack, but i found another confusing situation about the estructure of subtitles files for the game:

    Extracted directly from the GOG version, we have this files with are the first subtitles in the game intro:

    • e1m1_auto_01.mp3.txt
    • e1m1_auto_01a.mp3.txt
    • e1m1_auto_02.mp3.txt
    • e1m1_auto_02a.mp3.txt
    • e1m1_auto_03.mp3.txt
    • e1m1_auto_03a.mp3.txt
    • e1m1_auto_03b.mp3.txt
    • e1m1_auto_04.mp3.txt
    • e1m1_auto_04a.mp3.txt

    The thing is all "a" and "b" name-ended files are the same as the non letter ended file. In other words: e1m1_auto_03.mp3.txt is the same file and have the same text as e1m1_auto_03a.mp3.txt and e1m1_auto_03b.mp3.txt. What are these repeated files? Are they needed? It's important because there are not only this files, there are a bunch of subtitles files repeated in the original ENG version, and there are files ended with "##a" but without the non-letter-ended file.

    The spanish translation only have translated the "non-letter-ended" subtitles, and that intro part is working perfectly in spanish, so i assume the files are not really needed, but maybe is a mistake not translating them.

    With this i can automating more a little utility i'm using to extract the missing subtitles to translate them.

  18. Frank Sapone

    They probably just included extra ones by mistake and files got renamed at some point. But let's say

    e1m1_auto_01 e1m1_auto_01a e1m1_auto_01b

    are all the same then just match that.

    Also, the utility "parsec" that accidentally got included in the spanish patch is a utility to automate generating these files. If you want me to recompile it and give you an example on it's use I can do so.

  19. David Gámiz Jiménez

    I don't know if in the other translations exist the same error. But in the Spanish. The control options name for sidekicks commands are wrong:
    Original text <> Current Spanish translate = Meaning of this word in Spanish
    Stay <> Retirate=Back off
    Attack <> Espera=Stay
    Backoff <> Ataca=attack.

    The confusion is total when you play.

  20. David Gámiz Jiménez

    Sorry, Updated terms? I don't understand what is it

    By the way, BIG thanks to you and the all people that work in this patch!

  21. Lukas ThyWalls reporter

    Is a long time since i original posted this, but it’s not forgotten.

    This september for the spanish translation i translated all the dialogs and text missing compared to the english version, i need to play the entire game to see if all the context and references are correct. Also i detected all german voices in the translation, to mute them.

    My idea is to create an extra spanish translation pack to override the original spanish translation pack, so you use both to make it work (with the voices would need to overwrite the originals, but whatever), but you keep the original work and a fix.

    I can look up about the @David Gámiz Jiménez report and see if there is a problem with the translation there, and add it to the upgrade package. Although there is no ETA to release yet.

    Also, i should need to update the UI elements that are a little bit off in some case in the spanish translation. I did a little bit with https://bitbucket.org/daikatana13/daikatana/issues/197/texts-misplaced-or-missing-in-spanish but still it would need a bit of work there.

  22. Frank Sapone

    Hey Lukas,

    Sounds good, and yes I think the UI elements being off is going to be a problem for any translation. Might be possible at some point to set an X/Y value via some kind of config file for the translation packs.

    There is a new version of the language SDK that just got released with the 12-19-2021 build, so make sure you merge with that.

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